Tonguing Types

[Wilktone]

I've been thinking about the 8 tonguing types lately, rereading the Encyclopedia.

How can a teacher determine the best tonguing type for a student? Are there any general guidlines beyond the physical anatomy Doc Reinhardt described in the Encyclopedia? Is it advisable to experiment with changing a tonguing type (say, if the tongue is long enough to adopt Tongue-Type Five and the student has difficulty with jaw support)?

Are there specific exercises Doc would prescribe to assist in a transition from one tonguing type to another? If so, are they different according to the nature of the change or were there general exercises or principles to work on tonguing/slurring/sustaining (i.e., materials out of the Pivot Manual)?

Dave W.

[Wilktone]

Did anyone have any thoughts on this topic? Are tonguing types similar to embouchure types, your tongue type is always a "for now?" Why would someone want to change tongue types?
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wilktone.com

[airdyn]

Dave W.
Most players don't have a clue as to what their tongue is doing while slurring or attacking. One time a friend of mine asked Maynard in the dressing room before a gig what he does with his tongue. Maynard picked up the horn, played a few notes, looked puzzled and said "get outta here! I have to perform and I can't be thinking of these things!"
Why would we as teachers want to change one's tongue type or as performers want to have a tongue type change? Is the tongue acting as a blowing impediment i.e. blocking the path of the air column? Do we need more jaw support and if we have a long tongue, why not make use of it? What are our demands? Lead playing requiring sound, range and endurance? Delicate playing requiring meticulous articulation? High note specialization? Jazz only performance? Overall playing abilities? What is our physical (mouth, teeth, tongue, roof of mouth) attributes that call for a certain tongue type?
All of these questions require a certain tongue type to work. And if everything is working, the tongue type must be correct! (Maynard, huh?)
I would like to mention that there is a certain "philosophy" using a "tongue-oriented" embouchure...this is Doc's tongue type 3 and is in a very minority of players. It requires short lower teeth and long thick lower lips. If you have these physical attributes, that embouchure will work for you. If not, lots of luckl! As you can see, everyone will have a tongue type, whether he knows it or not and yes there can be a "for now" tongue type. Some have to be worked very hard to acquire, while some instantly work
I had a friend in his very late years that was with Diz's big band and was an upstream type...when he was 70 years old, I showed him Tongue Type V and he almost cried...it worked so well and he never knew about it!
There are even tongue types not mentioned in the Encyclopedia...how about Herbert Clarke's tongue type...the anchor tongue against the lower teeth for ALL playing, slurring or any form of tongueing ... this works great for some. What works for all? NOTHING! Variations due to each of us being unique...exactitude! No such thing. On one of the earlier post somewhere, someone asked "why did Doc make such a fuss about tongue types and what does it matter?" HA!
Dave S.