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Pedal Cs



 
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AMoore
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Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Pedal Cs Reply with quote

My pedal C in #3, played open, is extremely flat, as it should be. Do I just leave it flat, a la Gordon SA stuff, or do I play it 123? The text is ambiguous. It says play it 0, but it doesn't talk about the flatness.

Thanks!
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swingintrpt
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Location: Orange County

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave it flat. As you develop, it will correct itself. Above all, do not try to manipulate your playing to "put" it in tune.
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Steve Hollahan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My trumpet instructor studied with Stamp. He told me not to worry about the pedal tones, do the exercises completely. Intonate the lowest tones if possible. I do the Claude Gordon the same way. Also, do the third warmup pedal tone exercise for relaxing.

I do use a low F w/ extended first and third slides. Works for orchestra.
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Haustrmpt1392
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play it 123 with slides out. I can't get the open pedal C in tune and it bothers me so I prefer to use 123.
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Tom
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Joined: 07 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:29 am    Post subject: Pedal C Reply with quote

That bugs me too. Pierre Thibaud said not to worry, play it with 123 and Ed tarr and Gui Couloumy have said play it open, so...
When I play it open it is flat or I cannot get it. 123 I can get it but not stabile, so what to do? I am also confused over that.
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Dustin
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two horns. It plays in tune on my Connstellation, but it's flat on my Yamaha Mike Vax, so I almost always play those exercises on my Conn.
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EdMann
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One pro I know plays it while opening the waterkey-- cheater. Also, if you use a larger throated mpc like a CG Personal, it makes that open fingered pedal C sing. The smaller the throat, the more difficult to play in tune.

Cornet also make it easier and flugels... you should be able to do it the first time on the flug. The idea is to keep your same chopset used for a middle staff C, high G. I find the Maggio exercises that that same pro turned me onto are great for relaxing the chops and getting the vibrations going.

ed
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Tal Katz
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be great if someone could shed some light about the benefit of playing open Pedal Cs, rather than concentrating on how to practice to get it. I've been using Stamp for my warm-ups for a few years now. I can't play those pedal Cs open. I did manage to play them a few times on my C trumpet but on my Bb it seems almost impossible, so I normally just play them 123. Seems to me the idea is mainly learning how to move through the registers easily.

Pierre Thibaud in his books doesn't say you must be able to play them open, rather he says that if you really can't just use 123. However, I noticed some others that swear by being able to play open Pedal Cs.

So what is the idea of working that hard to get that open Pedal C as opposed to just playing it 123? Also, if it's a matter of equipment then what's the point?
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's the pedal Cs that do it, but the entire Stamp package. It's the motion involved in playing the pedals and then going back into the normal range that is beneficial. I've been doing the Stamp routine every day for about six weeks and I recently noticed my embouchure being more forward-focused. This has helped my tone and also allows more cushion for the mouthpiece.

It still can't play a high C, though.

Kent
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EdMann
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tal Katz wrote:

So what is the idea of working that hard to get that open Pedal C as opposed to just playing it 123? Also, if it's a matter of equipment then what's the point?


The difference for me is it forces the embouchure into a more proper place to make the note sound. Have you tried it with a larger throated mpc? Using 123 will give a relaxed pedal, which is beneficial, but the motion an emb. makes to get to an open C gives me both. I can tell if I'm going to have a troubling day if the open C doesn't play well for me on say a 3C. It just lines things up. I don't do 'em much anymore-- muscle memory is there, I think-- but they've been great for me.

ed
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Tal Katz
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EdMann wrote:
Tal Katz wrote:

So what is the idea of working that hard to get that open Pedal C as opposed to just playing it 123? Also, if it's a matter of equipment then what's the point?


The difference for me is it forces the embouchure into a more proper place to make the note sound. Have you tried it with a larger throated mpc? Using 123 will give a relaxed pedal, which is beneficial, but the motion an emb. makes to get to an open C gives me both. I can tell if I'm going to have a troubling day if the open C doesn't play well for me on say a 3C. It just lines things up. I don't do 'em much anymore-- muscle memory is there, I think-- but they've been great for me.

ed


Well, I played all kinds of mouthpieces through the years. I do play a large bore mpc, but trying to find one that will let me get that open Pedal C is going to take a lot of hard work I think, and might make me go insane, so I'd rather not do it. It could also be my Bb trumpet, because I know I could get it on my C with some work.

Your feeling about this matter is familiar to me from other people and I'm sure makes sense to you in terms of how your feel about your playing.
I wonder if someone has a more technical/scientific opinion about the matter.

I've always wondered if I really work hard and be able to play that note every day if my playing is going to get much better. I mean, I do know great players who can't play it open or barely ever play pedals. But still, just wondering for myself.
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dswisler
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Joined: 16 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took me many months of daily practice to get the pedal C in tune. I did quite a bit of work on pedal tone and normal range pitch bending. Once I learned to relax enough, my tone also opened up. I think the fundamental principal is in the relaxation and the minimal movement. I have gained the most from all of the Stamp exercises since I have been able to put the notes out of my head and focus on physiology and tone production.
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Norman
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working with my teacher on my emboughure across several months, I found that there is a sweet spot where pedal C is in tune with no need whatsoever to lip it up. If I play on that sweet spot, all my range is better, with less need to adjust or pivot. I have the feeling that the reason why Stamp (and Maggio) developed exercises that force you to play from pedal tones to thehigh register is to allow the student to find that sweet spot where everything works well and play with the least effort and need of adjustments. This of course is only my guessing, based on my experience as a student, but in this perspective I think it is important to work on pedal tones to develop the correct embouchure for the normal register, and I found that there are several teachers who think so. Of course the goal should be to play the widest register possible with the same embouchure. I also found that playing pedal Cs in tune helps me focusing the way my face muscles work, and it really looks like they work the same way for pedals and high notes! I think this relates to what Stamp said about thinking up to play down and vice versa.
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DavidCohen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit by bit it will raise in pitch. It won't happen overnight, but it will get there. Try not to worry about it too much.
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