Hindemith and Voisin

[George Coble]

Nate-

This monster of a topic that you have initiated is just getting better and better. You asked who Rudy Nashan was. Someone gave the simple answer that Rudy played in the CSO during the Reiner years, but that is only part of his legacy. Without going into "Capt. Kirk" details, Rudy joined the CSO in 1950 as second trumpet. (He actually debated at the time whether he should take the Chicago job or the principal position in the Denver Symphony). During the late 1950's/early 1960's Rudy was elected to the CSO orchestra committee, the progenitor of its ilk. The activism of this group eventually made the job and benefits of orchestral playing better for all, but at the time Rudy and his compatriots were looked upon as renegades and troublemakers by (some) musicians and (all) managements. The CSO management finally saw a way to invite Rudy's departure from the trumpet section but he almost immediately became vice president of the Chicago Musicians' Local and eventually displaced the (in)famous James Petrillo as president. Among many innovations and revisions he instituted, Rudy was pivotal in the integration of African Americans into the Chicago local. Following a rather messy elections process (it was said that Petrillo, in a move to make an example of his power, found several devious ways of tampering the election process including counting votes of deceased musicians) Rudy was out of a job. It was then that Rudy moved to Syracuse, NY and finished his trumpet playing career as principal with the Syracuse Symphony. He retired from playing in 1972 and was, in turn, hired by several governmental arts agencies. He is now living comfortably in Belfast, ME and at 86 is still an activist at heart and sharp as a tack. For more info, look for a book entitled "More than Meets the Ear: How Symphony Musicians made Labor History" written by the assistant principal 2nd violinist of the Minnesota Orchestra, Julie Ayer. Part of this book tells in better detail the importance and significance of this very great and important man. We all are better off because of him.

A final word (from me) about the controversy Hindemith (or his publisher) created with the tempo markings in his trumpet sonata: Christopher Keene once said that composers are prone to screwing up the tempo markings in their own compositions. Think about it. How many people actually observe Beethoven's tempos? Still, it would be nice to get a definitive answer to the question you originally posed.

[natemayfield]

Comment deleted. All information will be compiled into a new book on the Hindemith Trumpet Sonata by Nathaniel Mayfield.
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[natemayfield]

Comment deleted. All information will be compiled into a new book on the Hindemith Trumpet Sonata by Nathaniel Mayfield.
www.natemayfield.com

[PH]

There was an ITG Journal article on Rapier some years back (around the time he received one of their awards) that should have that information. I know that his wife, Mary is still alive and living in Louisville last I heard (should be reachable through local 11-637). She was his lifelong accompanist and might be able to shed light on this.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com

[deleted_user_56590f0]

Nate,

I studied with Schilke throughout the 60s and played the Hindemith Sonate for him (around 1969) using the conventional quarter note tempo. No mention of a half note tempo (or misprint) was ever made.

Best,
EC

[trpt.hick]

This is a very interesting discussion, but until the world finds at least ONE pianist who can play the first movement at half = 100-104, it really doesn't matter what Hindemith intended (even though the original manuscript clearly has quarter = 100-104).

[MrClean]

[tpter1]

It is an interesting discussion, and I'm enjoying reading all of the anecdotes. It is seemingly a trivial point, but it is a point of history that is blurry. What I wonder is (if Hindemith intended the half to be the tempo): why so fast, and, why not just indicate a time signature of 2/2 or alla breve?

[lerham]

I agree Jim. I think Nate is into the historical fact finding which I understand. I don't think it has any performance relivance really. But, only he can chime in on that.

I do remember working on this with Leon Rapier (Mary Rapier, his wife, was my accompanist at the time and could play the Hindemith from memory).
I can't remember the exact details, but his tempo decision was based on how well I could play the phrasing. He tended to like the slower tempo, much slower than I have heard recorded. His long phrasing was amazing thou. I have to say to this day I have found no one that sounds better on the Hindemith than him. Too bad he rarely perfomed it and didn't record it.

I performed the Addison Concerto with Mary Rapier. The orchestra reduction is almost unplayable on piano in the 3rd mov't. Her playing was amazing and I have yet to find a pianist who will even attempt this piece. He recorded (premiered) this piece with the Louisville Orchestra many years ago. Same deal with the phrases. Very, very long with small places to breath. I have the out of print album and many of the Louisville out of print recordings.

I TOTALLY agree about the tempo of the Hindemith. Even if you can play it very fast, who wants to listen to how frantic it will sound.
Just my humble opinion.
_________________
Dan Duncan
www.badolletensemble.org

[Jay Lichtmann]

[JRoyal]

I also just don’t ‘get’ this topic. I think the Thomas Stevens article pretty much covers this whole topic pretty well:

http://www.thomasstevensmusic.com/quotablesPage.php?Speaking-of-Correct-Tempi-6

http://www.thomasstevensmusic.com/gallery.php

In the article is covers and answers a good many of the questions and points raised here. This just seems like a whole lot of trouble for a footnote, I also don’t see how second, third, and forth hand accounts should trump the actual manuscript which states quarter note.

[deleted_user_56590f0]

Amen, Dave

Cheers,
EC

[tpter1]

Jay, I agree with you but up to a point. We as performers (especially of what is considered classical music, given its performance practices) must honor the intent of the composer. That intent is, in my mind, what is open to interpretation. Which I guess is why I find this discussion interesting. No pianist I know can play this piece in 2/2. (Heck... I don't know many who can play it in 4.) That would give me nightmares if I were a pianist. It is unplayable there. But I still want to know... is that what he had in his ear? And why? If a composer takes the time and effort to put something on paper, there is a reason for it. That reason has meaning and relevance to any interpretation that may be applied. Knowing that purpose, using it as a boundary, allows us to work with relevance and make informed and intelligent choices about interpretive matters. Or, should it be a misprint, then we come back to the original intent by understanding what it is not.

[natemayfield]

Comment deleted. All information will be compiled into a new book on the Hindemith Trumpet Sonata by Nathaniel Mayfield.
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[MrClean]

God bless Tom Stevens...
_________________
Jim Wilt
LA Philharmonic
Colburn School

[JJ]

All,

Let me respectfully offer a slightly different perspective; surely, the discovery that the composer of one of the most important trumpet works in our repertoire intended for the entire opening movement to be played twice as fast would, if true, be significant and worth exploring!

Having said that, I personally do think that we're well into diminishing returns on this one: we have the original manuscript, and, thanks to Nate, also a pretty good understanding of where the misprint came from. All that we're debating now is a few inconsistent third- and even fourth-hand accounts of people who claim Hindemith mentioned the misprint to them (probably true), and that the real tempo should be twice as fast (highly unlikely and probably a misunderstanding, IMHO).

JJ

[natemayfield]

Comment deleted. All information will be compiled into a new book on the Hindemith Trumpet Sonata by Nathaniel Mayfield.
www.natemayfield.com

[trpt.hick]

Nate,

Voisin attended a tribute for him at the UMass ITG in 2007, but he did not speak about the Hindemith. Did he speak about it at a different ITG? I remember him giving a masterclass at an ITG conference at the U. of KY (around 1981?) where a student played the Hindemith for him. It was not well prepared. Voisin's first comment to the audience was "We have a lot of work to do here." However, I don't remember him talking about the tempo.

DH

[JJ]

[natemayfield]

Comment deleted. All information will be compiled into a new book on the Hindemith Trumpet Sonata by Nathaniel Mayfield.
www.natemayfield.com