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casivake718 Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2016 Posts: 44
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject: How do I play fast in a solo? |
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I'm a high schooler starting to get the hang of improvising. I'm starting to using the right jazz vocabulary at the right time during a solo (sometimes playing out) and my teacher and band director has liked how I've been improvising in the past couple of months. Now what I want to know is how to play these fast solo's similar to players like Lee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard? It's always been a dream of mine to improvise like these legends. |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1108 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Learn the scales (which includes modes) that match up to the different chord symbols and practice.
Practice a lot.
I know it sounds like the same canned response you get to practically any "how to" question on this site, but remember that the one thing we never hear from any of the greats in any field is the ridiculous amount of practicing they do. They practiced it until they don't even have to think about it. That's the only real way to get there.
So, practice. A lot. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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casivake718 Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2016 Posts: 44
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Tpt_Guy wrote: |
I know it sounds like the same canned response you get to practically any "how to" question on this site, but remember that the one thing we never hear from any of the greats in any field is the ridiculous amount of practicing they do. They practiced it until they don't even have to think about it. |
I really like your response. I never really thought about the idea of how much these players actually practiced and how patient they were. So thank you for your response. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5701 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:15 am Post subject: |
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casivake718 wrote: | Tpt_Guy wrote: |
I know it sounds like the same canned response you get to practically any "how to" question on this site, but remember that the one thing we never hear from any of the greats in any field is the ridiculous amount of practicing they do. They practiced it until they don't even have to think about it. |
I really like your response. I never really thought about the idea of how much these players actually practiced and how patient they were. So thank you for your response. |
I've told this story probably a dozen times, but it bears repeating, and it's relevant to the discussion.
I attended a percussion/drum event one day and during a percussion clinic, the clinician, a college percussion instructor, recounted a story from his own early college days. He wasn't happy with his drum roll, so he asked his professor about what he could to do improve it. He thought he was going to get some tip, trick or shortcut that would turn on the light bulb.
His professor said, "if you want to improve your roll, then roll - 10 minutes a day, every day."
No tricks, no shortcut, no tip - just the basic wisdom that there is no shortcut to learning some things. You have to put in the focused work to refine the technique, increase fluency and knowledge, and that sort of thing.
Tpt_Guy gave it to you straight - it's going to take lots of practice and lots of work - there is no other way to do it. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I recently found a smartphone app called "The Amazing Slow Downer" from ronimusic.com. There's a free version that only plays the first 25% of each tune and a paid version that will play the entire tune. It's available for iPhone, iPad and Android.
The app lets you upload a tune to the app and play it back at a range of speeds from 25% to 200% of the original tempo without altering the pitch. This lets you take a recording that you want to learn and slow it down enough to identify the flurry of notes. You can play it back through a bluetooth speaker and gradually pick up the tempo as you play along and develop your skills.
There's also a pitch adjustment slider that will change the pitch, especially helpful if the original recording was tuned to a strange pitch center and you want to fix it. You can also use this slider to play back the tune in a different key.
If I were in your shoes and wanted to learn fast solos, I'd pick a few, load them into this app, and slow down the playback enough to pick out the notes. Then I'd play along and gradually pick up the tempo. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Worthy comments but don't be overwhelmed. Keep in mind that we all started not knowing what we were doing. It takes a long time to mastery but you can begin improvising right now, so go for it. Enjoy it and have fun. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2485 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Work on clean articulate and musically clear ideas, slowly. Don't ignore any of the bebop tradition. Fast doesn't mean anything if it's garbage, it doesn't mean anything if it's not contextualised or meaningful.
Clarke in all the horrible keys, major and minor.
Gerard Presencer's Modern Approach to Playing is a good book for working articulation and jazz language in a large-sequence fashion.
Transcribe, man! Stan Getz played some of the most swinging clear 16th note ideas whilst never losing any beauty of sound or compositional forethought. Him with the Oscar Peterson Trio is crazy good. "I wanna be happy" solo is embedded in my mind.
You already have the most important thing: wanting to learn. The rest is in the how.
Best,
Mike _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9831 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: |
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The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:31 am Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. |
LOL! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: Re: How do I play fast in a solo? |
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casivake718 wrote: | I'm a high schooler starting to get the hang of improvising. I'm starting to using the right jazz vocabulary at the right time during a solo (sometimes playing out) and my teacher and band director has liked how I've been improvising in the past couple of months. Now what I want to know is how to play these fast solo's similar to players like Lee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard? It's always been a dream of mine to improvise like these legends. |
May I be so bold as to suggest my Improv Speed Builders . . . a clever way to practice and build your improvisational speed at the same time.
Everybody says “start slow and move the metronome up gradually” . . . well, these volumes do exactly that for you, but the beauty of it is that you really don’t even realize that the metronome is being moved up on you. This is a very sneaky way of being fooled into playing faster without even realizing it.
These are 100% digital downloads . . . about 17 hours of play-along tracks per volume that push you slowly and incrementally toward playing cleaner and faster. Blues, “Bird” Blues, Minor Blues, “Giant Steps” changes, and Nuts & Bolts (several different kinds of cycles).
Very much worth the reasonable cost. In fact, use the coupon code boptismholidays to get 20% off everything at our website.
Thanks . . . by the way, this approach really works. I know this first-hand. _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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jazz_trpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: |
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The content of your solos notwithstanding...as far as finger speed...
I recommend practicing at slow tempos and making certain that you're not swinging the eighth notes much at all. Craft your articulations with purpose and try to be systematic about why you choose them.
I found it useful to take a little melodic fragment like
G-A-Bb-C-D-Bb-A-G (simple lick implying Gmi)
...setting a metronome, and playing it in all 12 keys (ascending/descending chromatically) gave me some help in improving my finger speed early on.
The Clarke studies were valuable for me as well. _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions! |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: |
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I learned to play quickly by practicing all my scales and arpeggios in all modes, starting very, very slow (so slow you can't miss a note) and working up the tempo faster, and faster, and faster.
The book "Patterns for Jazz" by Coker was crucial for my development.
Here is my favorite speed builder: Pick a mode (any mode). Let's go with Dorian. Play the scale through the cycle of 4ths, alternating ascending and descending. So C Dorian ascending, F Dorian descending, Bb Dorian ascending, etc. Tongue every note. Start slow and move the metronome up two clicks at a time until you're double-tonguing everything.
Now do the same, starting on C Dorian descending, F Dorian ascending, etc. Tongue every other note. Work it slow to fast.
Now play the corresponding arpeggio: Cmin7 ascending, Fmin7 descending, etc. Tongue every note.
Now play the arpeggios Cmin7 descending, Fmin7 ascending, etc. Tongue every other note.
For all of the above, make sure your metronome is on 2 and 4.
If you do the above for many years, you'll have chops and the speed to back them up!
Make sure you're also practicing bebop scales, all your altered dominants, modes of melodic and harmonic minor, and of course transcribing solos with great vocabulary.
Good luck! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2434 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Turkle wrote: | The book "Patterns for Jazz" by Coker was crucial for my development. |
While I cut my teeth on Aebersold, Jerry Coker's "Patterns for Jazz" has been the most helpful book for me, too.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Turkle and TrumpetMD...
Jerry Coker's book, Patterns for Jazz
is excellent for developing your technique
and jazz vocabulary.
And if you persevere it is
also helpful in developing your
high chops.
PERSEVERE is the key word.
It takes time and dedication. |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Slow, careful, thoughtful practice is the key to everything. Remember that every scale and pattern we practice is ultimately ear training (getting the vocabulary in your ears) and then connecting that to the physical (getting it under your fingers). So slow down.
Additionally, there's something strange that happens to some of us when we practice slow - we play differently than our fast playing. Nice soft articulations become tense and forceful, fingers become tense, etc. It's important to practice slowly in such a way that it will speed up well. If we have a slow gear and a fast gear, there will be a catch in the middle and our fast gear will never sound natural. The advice about not swinging the 8ths too much plays into this. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I knew a couple of guys who became terrific soloists. The teacher they worked with insisted that they never solo any faster than they could process in their head (my words, not theirs). As a consequence that both spent a year or two playing solos that sounded much slower than typical. After that their speed and quality took off. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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andrew.egizio New Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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When I started to learn how to improvise, I always thought that playing 16th note lines was this impossible thing, when I could play 8th note lines pretty well. It then dawned on me that I shouldn't think of the harmonies or lines any different than I would at a slower tempo/note length and It made crafting faster lines a lot easier for me. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: How do I play fast in a solo? |
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BeboppinFool wrote: | casivake718 wrote: | I'm a high schooler starting to get the hang of improvising. I'm starting to using the right jazz vocabulary at the right time during a solo (sometimes playing out) and my teacher and band director has liked how I've been improvising in the past couple of months. Now what I want to know is how to play these fast solo's similar to players like Lee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard? It's always been a dream of mine to improvise like these legends. |
May I be so bold as to suggest my Improv Speed Builders . . . a clever way to practice and build your improvisational speed at the same time.
Everybody says “start slow and move the metronome up gradually” . . . well, these volumes do exactly that for you, but the beauty of it is that you really don’t even realize that the metronome is being moved up on you. This is a very sneaky way of being fooled into playing faster without even realizing it.
These are 100% digital downloads . . . about 17 hours of play-along tracks per volume that push you slowly and incrementally toward playing cleaner and faster. Blues, “Bird” Blues, Minor Blues, “Giant Steps” changes, and Nuts & Bolts (several different kinds of cycles).
Very much worth the reasonable cost. In fact, use the coupon code boptismholidays to get 20% off everything at our website.
Thanks . . . by the way, this approach really works. I know this first-hand. |
And Rich's Clark studies variations have helped me a lot. Hey, Rich. |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10209 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Play along with faster tunes on Spotify, YouTube or your favorite CD. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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aaronwolf1 New Member
Joined: 04 Feb 2018 Posts: 7 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Practice it slow! Then, as you start to internalize the changes, up the tempo. 9753 on every chord change by memory, any tempo, and you'll be golden. _________________ Aaron |
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