View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
O00Joe Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 364 Location: Houston & Austin, Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just gotta say, Ed's post is spot in my experience. Mouthpieces are like shoes; people have different fits but you'll usually see similar traits in the mouthpieces of people playing in a certain style.
I suggested a Schilke 13C4 above which I still support. But the best possible situation is going to a store and try as many as you can. Hopefully have someone there who is trumpet privy to help you but if not you can still narrow down your list based on sound and comfort (though I would argue sound is somewhat more important).
Another suggestion no one mentioned is the Bach Artisan mouthpiece line. In general they have a more Schilke-esque rim and softer bite (higher alpha angle) but they still have that Bach sound everyone loves. Bach sound + Schilke comfort, pretty nice combo. I would have you try the 7C, 7D, 5C, and 3C from this line. _________________ 1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Laskey 60C
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C25C
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
Akai MPC Live II
Roland JD-Xi
Casio MT-68 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9167 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joe - do you mean that you can get a Bach like sound if you use a Bach mouthpiece? Where does the trumpet come in. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale).
Last edited by kehaulani on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
O00Joe Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 364 Location: Houston & Austin, Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Indeed, different mouthpiece brands tend to have different characteristic sounds. It's true, Bach mouthpieces sound like Bach mouthpieces. _________________ 1981 Bb Bach Stradivarius 37/25 ML raw - Laskey 60C
2003 C Bach Stradivarius 239/25A L silver - Stork Vacchiano 4C25C
2006 Bb/A Schilke Piccolo P5-4 silver - Reeves A adaptor - Stork SM SP6
Akai MPC Live II
Roland JD-Xi
Casio MT-68
Last edited by O00Joe on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9167 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1023 Location: East Asia
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As a high school player I inherited a Schilke 15b from my brother, and playing it now I believe it was probably the wrong piece for me. I don't know if OP is still here, but it's definitely worth checking out a range of other sizes and brands. You can probably find a 7c by a reputable maker (Getzen, Blessing, Benge) for $10 and probably some 5c/3c types for $15-20.
I also remember being a high school student and feeling like I would be a problem if I asked the director for help with something like this, and also feeling like my parents probably wouldn't pay for lessons. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: My Mouthpiece is “Trash” so I Need a New One |
|
|
Andy Del wrote: | ......You DO have a trumpet teacher, right? Remember that the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. If you are teaching yourself (band directors do NOT count as a teacher) then fix this ASAP.
..... |
I’m guessing the OP doesn’t have a private teacher. If he does, THAT’S who he should be discussing this with, and if he doesn’t.....most of us would agree on that answer.
There seems to be a lot of young new members popping up lately here asking questions that need to be addressed by a teacher. NOT to discourage any young/new member here from asking questions, but I wonder if some of these students, who seem to be motivated and interested, understand that no forum is a substitute for a teacher? Is this a result of kids being overly focused on the internet? I’m guessing it is, and it’s not (a substitute).
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:04 am Post subject: Size Matters |
|
|
Regarding fitting the rim (size and contour) to the player. I very recently experimented with "downsizing" from Warburton 4 and Curry custom of the same ID to Warburton 6. I'd been digging Mark Zauss with his incredible range and facility. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4HeSGcMPgY
He and more than a few of the Orlando Disney Dennizons use very small ID mouthpieces. (Check out the custom piece contours on Warburton's website). I thought I could benefit! I had a 6S which I have used on my pic. I started playing on my Bb and bought a bunch of used 6 tops and a flugel piece in anticipation of the switch. After about a week I felt and could clearly see an abraision on the inside of my lower lip. Uncomfortable and alarming. I determined that the 6 rim fit perfectly to press my lip against a sharp spot on my lower front teeth (I came up before braces were ubiquitus (sp?). I went back to my Currys and within three days my chops were back to normal.
The moral of the story: Don't subject your students to a Procrustean Bed of a preconceived idea of the "correct" mouthpiece.
PS I'll be posting a collection of Warburton 6 and some backbores in Marketplace soon. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1475 Location: OHare area
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you, Ed and others such as Zaferis for telling it straight.
Spending time with GR himself in person and on the phone with him and Brian Scriver, I have learned an incredible amount about what goes into proper mouthpiece selection.
One must - especially a young player - be very careful about what kind of mouthpiece they choose.
It is imperative they seek professional assistance whenever possible. Sometimes what is comfortable is not the right mouthpiece simply because it can result in too much pressure.
Bach put "sharper" rims on many of his mouthpieces to ensure that the right angle on the chops could be found and less pressure would be the result or there would be discomfort.
Of note, the Schilke 4 rims do not all have a soft bite as each 4 rims has different characteristics other than the description of being "flatter". Nor do they all have high alpha angles.
R. Tomasek |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9167 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
If I may interject this.
Yes, a lot of scientific advances have been made in the last decades but some players seem to be so dazzled with this that they overlook that earlier craftsmen may have developed and perfected mouthpieces with less science but also with, not to be overlooked, a tremendous amount of trial and error and just plain feel and results.
Try to duplicate an Amati violin. Pure craftsman based, mainly, on trail and error and intuition.
I don't mean to lessen mouthpieces that have a lot of science in their construction, just that pure craftsmanship and experience are not necessarily trumped by science. Play what works. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale).
Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sjholson New Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 5
|
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
I really honestly forgot I had posted this, but I'm surprised by all the responses. I really was expecting someone to say "hey this is good" and I'll be on my way. The same day I posted this my parents took me to the music store after the concert for the clinic. The dude over there played trumpet and said he played on the 14A4a himself but also on a Bach 5C. All they had in stock were Bachs so he showed me the 3C,5C,7C. I tried out the 5C and it felt pretty comfortable and had the right sound so we purchased it at $40. I really was skeptical for doing this but we'll see.
NO, I don't have a private teacher but I really wanted some suggestions, that's all, but I received SO much advice from you people. I literally can't afford to buy a couple mouthpieces or pay for private lessons at the moment unless I sacrifice paying for slightly more important things imo. It's not that we don't work, we just have too much on our plate. If I decided to do this earlier in the year or last year, money wouldn't have been a problem and lessons would have been agreed to. But now since there's only 4 months until graduation and I don't know yet if I'm doing music in college (not majoring in it), my parents don't see private tutoring as the right path to take. Lessons are like on the bottom of my dad's importance list. I don't even know if there's a good teacher in my immediate area. I know my directors do private lessons but neither started on trumpet. The dude who did "trumpet instructing" during marching season and recommended me the 14A4a lives 5 hours away and is a college student. I live in the middle of nowhere in an extremely poor region. All of my and my parents' money has gone to paying for senior year, college/college visits, etc etc etc as well as saving up for three trips later on in the year on top of saving for college. I occasionally work for a flea market but the paycheck gets sucked up by other things. People tell me I'm doing well enough without a teacher, and no one has ever recommended me getting one until I came on here. The spirit for high school music isn't really strong in this area, so you're either lucky you're good or you have the money to pay for lessons (which aren't as common), but I guess there's a reason they always sit higher chairs. This district clinic is my last "important thing" and then two concert contests follow up in March/April. The clinic is on the first week of February. Is this enough time to go to a teacher or no?
I guess I should just stop listening to these people telling me these things considering everything I've got advice-wise was bad. I guess someone who really wants to help me shouldn't be telling me to throw stuff away lol. Also, I've scoured the internet and I really don't know who's safe to buy from. I'm comparing prices from Amazon and other well-known sales sites since I don't know other places to trust and buy from. I also considered buying used ones but I'm still skeptical. I'm sure if we return the Bach 5C in favor for something more useful, my dad will do it.
Thanks for the advice, bad and good. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
|
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry things are so chaotic right now. This is a rough time for you and no one can really help except to be empathetic.
Try to keep your focus narrow and do the best you can. If the 5C feels good go ahead with it, but if it makes you the slightest bit uncomfortable stick with your old mouthpiece and proceed to do your best. You aren't going to major in music, so this is all going to hit the back burner next year anyway as you get immersed in college.
Give yourself permission to be confused and worried. Everyone else around you is in the same boat. Don't beat yourself up; everything will be OK if you just trust yourself to do your best. And don't forget why you play music in the first place. It should make you feel good. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3369 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
sjholson wrote: |
... This district clinic is my last "important thing" and then two concert contests follow up in March/April. The clinic is on the first week of February. Is this enough time to go to a teacher or no? ... |
----------------------------
My guess (I'm an old amateur, community band, long ago HS/college player - not teacher or director) is NO about seeking a private teacher, don't complicate things more at this point. Your school director should be able to comment about changes in your sound - maybe not tell you 'what to do', but should be able to notice a difference.
You've got the Bach 5C (a very decent mpc as long as it fits your face and doesn't cause pain) - you might lose a few top screech high range notes, but they probably are not important to your actual needs. The 5C is more suitable for providing a good full-range trumpet sound than a special purpose high-range mpc like you've been using. Do easy exercises and concentrate on getting a good tone and proper articulations. Work into higher range slowly and continue striving for a good tone. Don't FORCE bad sounding high notes! And remember that your upper lip has to be able to vibrate to get higher pitch - too much top lip mpc pressure will STOP those vibrations.
Work on the 'playable range' that is needed for your events, higher than that is wasted effort at this time.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TrpPro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1471 Location: Riverview, FL
|
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stick with the 14A4A. It's a good piece. Be your own person on this one. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2175 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
|
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
sjholson wrote: | Also, I've scoured the internet and I really don't know who's safe to buy from. ... | Ask us. Seriously, ask us.
So many of us have been buying stuff on the internet for years and know who the good guys are and who are the crooks. If you're considering buying from someplace on the internet, tell us where and we'll give you our experience working with that place.
You're part of the TrumpetHerald family now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trumpet_cop Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242
|
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
TrpPro wrote: | Stick with the 14A4A. It's a good piece. Be your own person on this one. |
I'm sure you get lots of work and teach successfully, but with as much respect as I can muster, this is truly poor advice to be giving after he has clearly stated that people are unhappy with his sound and is looking to make a change.
No one is saying to throw away your 14A4a. It just isn't right for concert band, especially since you are not receiving guidance from an experienced private instructor. Keep it for the things it was designed for: high energy commercial music. Let me extend an olive branch to TrpPro here... if you make it work, you can also use it for high "legit" and piccolo work. But it is not an all around piece for young folks who are not able to change their concepts easily.
Good luck! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sjholson New Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 5
|
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not going to never use my 14A4a ever again, because after playing on it for nearly 2 years it's hard to just let it go. I have a parade in Disney World coming up, and there's only two firsts and I'm on top part, so I might use it just so that it can get me through the parade.
The Bach 5C's sound was beautiful! I meshed with the other trumpets well and felt like I didn't hear just myself play. It was such a rewarding experience. However, the overall feel of it on my lips felt wrong. I know it's new and that this would happen with any new mouthpiece, but just using it sounded alarms off in my head. After the warmup chorale in class, we started the first song (a march) and I felt like I couldn't continue. I couldn't even hit high F on the staff without taking a mini break! I still feel the effects of it today on my lips (especially the top, it feels chapped/rough but it’s probably something else) after using it for a 50 minute class and a 1 hour long after school practice. I'm probably just being wimpy and should keep going, but I just don't think the Bach 5C is for me. A friend of mine has a Yamaha 14B4 she used to play on before she got her custom Warburton. I'll ask to try it out. I also thought about asking around and seeing if there's a pro player or teacher around to give me his/her opinion on mouthpieces and let me play for them so that they can help. If they have good prices, I'll go from there.
Also to Brad, young players use this forum for questions that they feel like no one else can answer in their life. Most just want a shove in the right way and then they'll be on their way. Obviously, no one can act as a personal teacher, but having the opinion from people who know what they're doing is comforting in a weird way.
Last edited by sjholson on Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you haven't been on the 5C for at least a month then you really don't know how your range and endurance could ultimately be.
But going between the 14a4A and the 5C is kind of extreme. There are bound to be pieces that are a good compromise. You might try the Schilke 14A4 or 14B4 (or the Yamaha equivalents) which could fill out your sound. On the Bach side, you might try the 6C or 3C which could be more comfortable and less taxing than the 5C. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 901 Location: Nissa, France
|
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree with VinDiBona about Bach rim shapes, that are not for everybody, not enough comfortable, friendly for many people and then will tax their endurance and playing.
Maybe try some similar ID in other brand, Marcinkiewicz being the most comfortable rim i found ( with old Jet tone B or C rim contour, and Yam. Shew lead)
best |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3369 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
sjholson wrote: |
... it feels chapped/rough at the point where my lips and skin meet but that may be paranoia and could be something else) ... |
-------------------------------------------------
Especially in dry winter months, I use ChapStick (actually cheap off-brand from Dollar General) every night before bed. Smear it on lips and rub it onto the surrounding tissue - above and below.
And of course it is very important to have the mpc fit YOUR face.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1023 Location: East Asia
|
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Everyone is different also. Some people have trouble moving between mouthpieces and others can play several at the same time with no problem. For me I've found my best mouthpieces to be bach 5c and wick 4b, which are somewhat similar, but I've tried other pieces intermittently and had no trouble going back. All to say: definitely don't entirely stop on your original mouthpiece during this period, and if you can borrow some other classmates' mouthpieces to try that's a good idea too (like the 14b4). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|