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B.A.C. company and Martin Committees


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Brent
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: B.A.C. company and Martin Committees Reply with quote

Looks like the B.A.C. company will be taking over the production of the Martin Committees. My guess is they're using the toolings that Kanstul had before they closed shop.

From what I've read, B.A.C. makes some incredible horns. They're also making Benge model horns as well.

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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: B.A.C. company and Martin Committees Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
They're also making Benge model horns as well.


Also from the Kanstul tooling, presumably, although I know that they also had some benge bell mandrels before the Kanstul purchase.

Will they be showing these Committees and Benges at NAMM this year?
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Will they be showing these Committees and Benges at NAMM this year?


Yes. According to their Facebook page they will be showing the Martin Committee and the prototype Benges at NAMM. They actually had two of the prototype Benges at JEN last week; not sure about the Committee.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy, if anyone here can play them and report back to us, that would be great!
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stephan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The site https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ is updated and the B.A.C horn looks very different from the Kanstul.
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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stephan wrote:
The site https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ is updated and the B.A.C horn looks very different from the Kanstul.


The valve cluster looks different (less like the original) and there is a first valve thumb throw (also less like the original), but otherwise it looks a lot like the Kanstul.
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Drklobz
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be at NAMM and will gladly give my thoughts on the horn. I'm looking forward to trying it and the new BAC Benge while there.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stephan wrote:
The site https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ is updated and the B.A.C horn looks very different from the Kanstul.


And the case looks cool....
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did B.A.C. acquire the Benge name from Conn-Selmer?
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot is going on at BAC, and the new line of instruments facilitated by the acquisition of what was left at Kanstul is quite exciting. Unfortunately, I am a long way from KC and have not had a chance to try them, but have heard quite a bit of detail regarding them – some of which I will share.

Whatever else one might say about Mike Corrigan, there is no denying he is a man of incredible passion. He is not alone in this at BAC and while perhaps focusing their energy differently, all of those involved in these new models have just as much passion as he does for the art and their craft. That is a really good starting point for any new instrument.

The new Committee is exactly that, new. Like all of the BAC projects, this is their horn, built with the tooling and methods available (not everything was still there, so continuing Kanstul was never an option for them). The amount of R&D that has gone into this new Committee rivals any new product development process and is in no way a copy of a particular horn from any of the 3 generations of Committee or of the short-lived Kanstul 1603s. However, the folks at BAC went to great lengths to gather precise details, and I mean a lot of details, from every form of Committee ranging from the few Kanstul’s built, all the way back to my 1937 example of one of the very first Committees ever built. They identified the elements in common, those that diverged, and the attributes each imbued the whole with. From that knowledge, and with the incorporation of some of the most leading edge tech in the business, they developed a horn that intended to make manifest the concept “Martin Committee”. The unmistakable sound, the broad projection, and the facilitation of precision that typifies all Committees is the goal in what I would define as the 4th generation.

Early feedback has been good. I look forward to hearing the opinions of more skilled sets of ears in the near future.

The Benge project is leveraging not just tooling, but a non-physical asset that came to BAC from Kanstul: the design knowledge of some key shapers of the instrument in the twentieth century. The classic bright full French trumpet sound that was defined by the first viable orchestral valved trumpet, made by Besson, developed on its own path starting with the mission of Benge himself to not only continue it in the face of new and different sounding orchestral trumpets during the depression, but to pursue its perfection (when even the other French firms abandoned the French concept). His friend, colleague and teacher Renold Schilke contributed to that mission, as did Byron Autrey and Irving Bush. Both Benge and Autrey pursued that goal through the end of their lives, which in Byron’s case was only recently, and only after continuing the mission in the background with Kanstul and others for decades. The Benge project is ongoing, but the goal expressed to me by those involved is nothing less than to continue Benge and Autrey’s mission and produce the finest and most pure example yet of that clear French/Besson/Benge sound we all know when we hear it, refining ever further the degree to which the equipment aids the player in producing it easily, accurately, and consistently.

It’s a frustration and a shame that Kanstul unloaded the Benge annealing ovens on EBay before BAC had a chance to acquire them, but I am sure they will develop a viable replacement.

To essentially build a new larger shop and simultaneously launch so many products (these plus Paseo Z72 and Plaza) with such detailed design involvement in so few months has been a herculean undertaking. The proof is in the playing however, so now we have to listen with open minds to those who, hopefully with equally unbiased curiosity, try out these new horns and report back to tell us how well BAC is doing with their as yet still under construction facilities, still learning staff, and still evolving processes.

As for the Benge name, there is an interesting story there that I will leave to those involved to tell when they, and it, are ready.
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:55 pm    Post subject: B.A.C. company and Martin committees Reply with quote

Is BAC the one making the Committee horn for Martin Brasswind Company right now? Just curious.
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pinstriper
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: B.A.C. company and Martin committees Reply with quote

blbaumgarn wrote:
Is BAC the one making the Committee horn for Martin Brasswind Company right now? Just curious.


According to the page I saw, yes.
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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:

As for the Benge name, there is an interesting story there that I will leave to those involved to tell when they, and it, are ready.

In other words, yes, they acquired the Benge name from Conn-Selmer.
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drklobz wrote:
I'll be at NAMM and will gladly give my thoughts on the horn. I'm looking forward to trying it and the new BAC Benge while there.
Yes, please do! Would love to read your thoughts/reviews on what they have designed!
Thanks,
Dennis
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TrptSTP
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liberty Lips wrote:
stephan wrote:
The site https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ is updated and the B.A.C horn looks very different from the Kanstul.


The valve cluster looks different (less like the original) and there is a first valve thumb throw (also less like the original), but otherwise it looks a lot like the Kanstul.


I'm curious who is making that valve cluster. To my eyes it doesn't look like Carolbrass, Meinlschmidt, Getzen, Kanstul, or Adams. I know that they have made in-house valve clusters before, but I wonder if this is one. I know what I think it is, but I wonder what the actual answer is.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrptSTP wrote:
Liberty Lips wrote:
stephan wrote:
The site https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ is updated and the B.A.C horn looks very different from the Kanstul.


The valve cluster looks different (less like the original) and there is a first valve thumb throw (also less like the original), but otherwise it looks a lot like the Kanstul.


I'm curious who is making that valve cluster. To my eyes it doesn't look like Carolbrass, Meinlschmidt, Getzen, Kanstul, or Adams. I know that they have made in-house valve clusters before, but I wonder if this is one. I know what I think it is, but I wonder what the actual answer is.


Given the tooling they have on hand and the breadth of horns they expect to offer, it would be most practical and profitable for them to make their own valves. Also, it would fill the domestic void left by Kanstul. Of course, I don’t know if Flip Oaks, Scodwell, Harrelson, etc. would follow to BAC.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I remember reading that Kanstul Committees are excellent Committee-ish horns, but they are not Committees?
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Bill Ortiz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder how they play compared to the Schilke Handcraft-look forward to trying one.
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Last edited by Bill Ortiz on Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill - https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1183333
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enviroman22
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:43 pm    Post subject: Great post Reply with quote

Thank you for this post! A wealth of diverse information. Good job TH.
And the expertise shown through the introduction of Mike Corrigan of B.A.C., a company I never heard of is especially fascinating.
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