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david johnson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2002 Posts: 1623 Location: arkansas/missouri
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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J. B. Arban surely influenced many of us, even though he dabbled much in Cornet. |
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jimspeedjae Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 165
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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+ for Maurice Murphy.
Not just in the UK, but in the realm of film music, where his sound influenced composers and reached a very wide audience. More knew his name than most trumpeters and his Bond work, in particular, ensured an obituary in many national papers.
And an honourable mention to John Wallace, who whilst not convincing most of us to use a 4-valve Eb, did influence the choice of wedding music for a generation (following the Charles and Di thing) and kept more than a few trumpet players (me included) busy on most Saturdays for many a year
afterwards.
Both incredibly well-respected players, introducing many an audience to the great sound a trumpet can make and inspiring a lot of youngsters to pick up the trumpet. |
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rynoe04 Regular Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, MA/Detroit, MI
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Ghitalla I feel should be at least in the discussion here. _________________ Ryan Noe
Western Michigan University '08, BM
Boston University '11, MM
Boston University '15, DMA |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:42 am Post subject: |
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rynoe04 wrote: | Ghitalla I feel should be at least in the discussion here. |
Both in terms of style, and the OP mentioned concern about those who also influenced horn manufactures. Vacchiano would rank high in both, as well, due to his work with Bach. Ghitalla's use of a 'Tottlephone' C/D trumpet harkened back to his BSO predecessor, Roger Voisin, who was similarly influential in terms of students and horn builds.
That Charlie Schlueter hasn't come up yet in this discussion surprises me a bit - students in Japan and Brazil as well as domestically occupy principal chairs all over, and his influence on Dave Monette's early builds as well as the more extreme concepts, including the first modern integral mouthpiece (Raja) horns stands alongside his tenure in the BSO and teaching at Tanglewood and the New England Conservatory, as well as innumerable clinics abroad.
Happy practicing!
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Ex-Trumpet Regular Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 45 Location: Plano, TX
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:58 am Post subject: |
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rynoe04 wrote: | Ghitalla I feel should be at least in the discussion here. |
Agree.
Roger Voisin should be mentioned as well. His style was unique, for sure, but the brass section just sounded different when he was in the band.
And who hasn't been influenced by Maurice Andre?!?! _________________ “The world's No. 1 tennis player spends 90 percent of his time winning, while the world's No. 1 golfer spends 90 percent of his time losing. Golfers are great losers.”
-- David Feherty |
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JWG Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 260
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Most Influential Orchestral Player? |
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Steve A wrote: | A bit of a discussion question - I've been thinking recently about who has been the most influential orchestral player on sound, style, and overall musical direction. |
Sorry to get philosophical on answering this question, but this question has more than one correct answer.
The ability to mimic so much of the complexity of the human voice constitutes the greatest feature of the trumpet family of instruments. Our instruments can sound like just about anything we need them to sound like to paint a picture in listeners' minds and/or create moments of catharsis.
Any of the great players mentioned above had/have the ability to play with a nearly limitless variety of sounds and styles.
In many ways, the vast variety of possible sounds and styles might cause the most disagreement within the trumpet community and between the trumpet community and the composing/directing community, because we can record any phrase in a variety of ways and all those recordings can sound great in isolation. However, in rehearsals and performances, we engage in a battle of the minds with each other over how to interpret particular phrases when we play together under someone's direction.
Hence, the most "influential" players on "sound, style, and overall musical direction" may end up being the ones who can get their orchestral colleagues as well as their directors to adopt/accept their interpretations on a given phrase in a given performance.
My $0.02. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF |
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nltrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Posts: 206 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I'm no expert in his teaching philosophy, and he's a bit of an outlier compared to the others mentioned here for obvious reasons. However, Malcolm McNab is responsible for leading a lot of the orchestra soundtracks that came out of Hollywood. |
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PMonteiro Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2020 Posts: 130 Location: Hudson Valley
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:46 am Post subject: |
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jimspeedjae wrote: | + for Maurice Murphy.
Not just in the UK, but in the realm of film music, where his sound influenced composers and reached a very wide audience. More knew his name than most trumpeters and his Bond work, in particular, ensured an obituary in many national papers. |
Agreed. While players like Herseth are legends among the orchestral crowd, Maurice Murphy is more known to the average person. Even those who have never listened to standard orchestral repertoire have most likely heard a film soundtrack with Murphy on it. He has influenced a wider variety of trumpeters, both young and old, amateur and professional. _________________ YTR-6335HSII
YTR-2320
Accord in C |
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hup_d_dup Veteran Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 290 Location: Tewksbury, NJ
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:08 am Post subject: |
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You would have to consider Georges Mager, who instructed Herseth, Voisin, and Adelstein, each of whom influenced countless others. Mager, during his long career in Europe and the US (principal at Boston for 30 years) was the player who was most influential in the shift from Bb to C trumpets in American orchestras.
Hup |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1108 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:48 am Post subject: |
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hup_d_dup wrote: | You would have to consider Georges Mager, who instructed Herseth, Voisin, and Adelstein, each of whom influenced countless others. Mager, during his long career in Europe and the US (principal at Boston for 30 years) was the player who was most influential in the shift from Bb to C trumpets in American orchestras.
Hup |
Well, if we're going historical, I'll have to throw my hat in for Max Schlossberg.
Some of Schlossberg's students (taken from jlandressbrass.com):
Elden E. Benge
Isidor Blank
Saul Caston
Charles Colin
Louis Davidson
Vladimir Drucker
Harry Freistadt (his son-in-law)
Harry Glantz
Bernie Glow
Sigmund Hering
Max Kaminsky
"Mannie" Klein
Charlie Margulis
Nathan Prager
Seymour Rosenfeld
Reynold Schilke
James Stamp
Edward Treutel
William Vacchiano
Doc Cheatham
John Barnett
Irwin Shainman
Seymour Feuer
Harry James
Charlie Spivack
All influential in their own right, some becoming influential teachers still praised today. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9133 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:18 am Post subject: |
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_________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1838
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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So Harry James had a massive influence on the role of an orchestral principal trumpet player? |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1108 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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bike&ed wrote: | So Harry James had a massive influence on the role of an orchestral principal trumpet player? |
That's your take-away? Seriously? _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1838
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Tpt_Guy wrote: | bike&ed wrote: | So Harry James had a massive influence on the role of an orchestral principal trumpet player? |
That's your take-away? Seriously? |
Umm, the OP asked a rather particular question, to which only a certain percentage of the ensuing posts have actually made any kind of genuine attempt to answer...the list above is not one of them... |
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trumpet_cop Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ex-Trumpet wrote: |
And who hasn't been influenced by Maurice Andre?!?! |
Andre's large success was as a soloist; not an orchestral player. Not sure that particular influence applies in this particular realm.
I have to agree with Bike&ed. While many orchestral players have influenced many players, those who did not become orchestral players or practitioners cannot be considered in this discussion. Commercial players are great. Those who go on to teach are great. Tpt_guy even qualified it that some listed players were influential in their own right, but they are not influential orchestral players and therefore were probably not directly responsible for influencing the path of orchestral performance and pedagogy today. _________________ Good Ol' Boy ID#3624360 |
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Didymus Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Posts: 306 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: As A Listener: |
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For folks like me who did (do) more listening than playing over the last three decades, Herseth/McNab/Murphy can claim to be the most influential trio of orchestral trumpeters. No offense intended towards influential pedagogues, orchestral trumpeters of earlier generations, virtuoso soloists, notable studio musicians, or awesome crossover players. For many people in my generation, the trumpet in the context of an orchestra was often heard on movie soundtracks. That might give Maurice Murphy an edge over Herseth in terms how much the two influenced the average listener.
I don't own many Chicago Symphony recordings, but I have nearly everything recorded by Montreal when Charles Dutoit was their music director and I heard them live during that time. In my head, I can "hear" James Thompson and Paul Merkelo louder and clearer than Bud Herseth. But when I hear recordings of Herseth, I wish I could have heard him live. I have lived in Minneapolis for a quarter century, and I heard Manny Laureano live several times; he is incredible. Personally, Thompson is the first sound I hear in my head when I think of some of the standard orchestral repertoire. _________________ Enjoy the journey. |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1108 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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bike&ed wrote: |
Umm, the OP asked a rather particular question, to which only a certain percentage of the ensuing posts have actually made any kind of genuine attempt to answer...the list above is not one of them... |
So answering the question and including in a list of successful and influential students some players who happen to not be orchestral players means it wasn't a genuine attempt to answer the question.
Got it.
Don't be literal. Be literate.
Stamp, Vacchiano, Truetel, Glantz have taught armies of successful students and their teaching methods, which derive from Schlossberg, have been some of the most successful. Including Harry James on the list of succeasful Schlossberg students does not discount that fact. It only adds emphasis to his influence on the trumpet playing community at large. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1838
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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No need to quibble, other than to simply check the thread title again. Gotta agree with Didymus. From the recording influence perspective, McNab might even be the arguable “winner.” |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1108 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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bike&ed wrote: | No need to quibble, other than to simply check the thread title again. Gotta agree with Didymus. From the recording influence perspective, McNab might even be the arguable “winner.” |
"Most Influential Orchestral Player?" Schlossberg played in the NY Phil for 16 years.
McNab is a beast.
I'm not sure how influential he is. I never hear much about him from symphonic players, which is likely what most people think of when they hear "orchestral." He is certainly among the most prolific trumpeters and is a legend, for good reason.
Interestingly, McNab credits his success to Stamp, who was a student of Schlossberg.
If I could play half as well as McNab I would die happy. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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trumpet56 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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The trumpet players who helped form the American Orchestral Style were Klopfel and Heim who were both German and instigated a change from the use of the Cornet which was popular in Orchestras at that time, to the Trumpet. |
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