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coloradomacs New Member
Joined: 19 May 2020 Posts: 8
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:37 am Post subject: Flugelhorn Mouthpieces |
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I just bought a Yamaha 631G for $830 in great condition. I'm now looking at mouthpieces. I'm currently thinking about Yamaha's Bobby Shew flugel mouthpiece, as I already play on the Bobby Shew trumpet mouthpiece and I love how it feels. I'm also looking at something deeper and more rich, so maybe the 16F4? I'm too new to the world of flugels to know what will fit me best and it's so hard now to try mouthpieces. What're your opinions on those and any other suggestions for something more dark and rich, and also maybe something Bobby Shew like. _________________ Bach Strad 37
Yamaha 631G |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:48 am Post subject: |
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I’m wondering about something similar. I’m wanting to know: what piece helps give the most ‘depth’ and ‘fluff’? |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: |
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I play a Yamaha 14F4 with my Yamaha 731 and like it plenty for much of my playing. There's nothing terribly deep or fluffy about the Yamaha "F" cup but it works just fine. As I recall the Shew flugel pieces isn't terribly different. If you want a much more exotic sound I'd recommend the Reeves HF cup. Reeves size 43 would probably be closest to the Yamaha Shew or 16F4 but with a bit wider feel. I think the Reeves 43N feels a bit more Bach-like compared to the stock Reeves 43. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Curry FLD in your rim size. D is for deep. Still quite manageable. The Shew piece was too trombone-like in sound for me. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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When Bobby plays the Shew horn with the Shew mouthpiece the clouds part and the angels sing. I absolutely love how he sounds pretty much always. When I play the same setup it sounds plenty good but not nearly as rich,...to my ears. The Reeves HF meets or exceeds the sound in my head. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2193 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Warburton makes some nice flugel pieces; rim sizes correspond to their standard trumpet tops, although they also have a signature flugel piece made for Arturo Sandoval.
I think the Warburton 5FL or 5FLD might be similar in rim size to the Shew, but don't quote me.
I play the 4FL and it gets a nice buttery sound without getting too trombonish on my Getzen flugel. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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wilder Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 341 Location: NYC
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I would talk to Mark Curry if you dont want to spend more than you have to. In any event, make sure you get the right shank for your specific horn. Its very important. good luck. jw |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7016 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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There is nothing like the Flip Oakes Extreme mouthpiece for flugelhorn. If you think of a French horn mouthpiece as a concept, that is essentially what the Extreme is. Flip has them in all three shank styles and in a range of sizes.
flipoakes.com _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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claf Regular Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2017 Posts: 49
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:05 am Post subject: |
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spitvalve wrote: | I think the Warburton 5FL or 5FLD might be similar in rim size to the Shew, but don't quote me. |
I'm quoting you , but just because I have the Marcinkiewicz BS and the Warburton 5FL (but not the Yamaha Shew).
The rim on the Marc. is rounder than the one on the Warburton, but the diameter is similar (maybe a tiny bit larger on the Warburton).
The bore is however larger on the Warburton.
One more thing, the Warburton 5 trumpet rim is slightly different in shape with the Warburton 5 flugelhorn rim (the flugelhorn one is a little bit rounder). It's funny because there is a similar situation with Marcinkiewicz BS mouthpieces (the rim on the flugelhorn mouthpiece is rounder than the Marcinkiewicz Shew 1 and 2). _________________ Bb: Schagerl James Morrison, Van Laar B7
C: Bach Philadelphia |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2027
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I'm a fan of the Austin Custom Brass MDF flugel pieces. They are the closest thing to the sound I have in my head. I also agree with the comment about Bobby Shew's flugel sound. One of my favorites and definitely a huge influence in my personal sound concept. |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1966
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: Flugel mouthpieces |
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This is my opinion on the flugelhorn mouthpiece selection.
Obviously those favoring extremely deep flugel mouthpieces have never been in a playing situation like:
A cold showroom and picking up the horn cold to play unisons with flutes.
Soloing with an orchestra in the same cold/cool conditions.
Playing flugelhorn lead with a chart written by the arranger up to D's and E's above the staff ( Don Menza comes to mind when playing in his band).
These are the reasons I advocate a medium cup depth on the flugel. A extreme deep mouthpiece certainly gives the dark sound some like but in actual performance conditions that makes life more difficult.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Flugel mouthpieces |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | Obviously those favoring extremely deep flugel mouthpieces have never been in a playing situation like:
A cold showroom and picking up the horn cold to play unisons with flutes. |
Made me laugh out loud. Thanks Tony. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2021 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Tony, great thoughts that might often be overlooked. Very good.
I’ve felt, having never played flugel enough to get used to it’s less than stellar intonation quirks, that extra-deep cups exacerbate tuning problems, and that modest sized mouthpieces allow one to play in tune a bit easier. I had a Benge 5 flugel; notorious for intonation problems, but a modest sized cup certainly helped. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:22 am Post subject: |
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a shew flugel piece is a great piece for getting what pretty musch everyone really wants out a flugle. Fluffly sound with definition, and enough articulation and projection to play written parts reliably and automatically, just switching from trumpet in 2 bars and coming in comfortably. And then playing 4 choruses of jazz in a big band with or without a mic. Great mouthpiece. About as deep as it can be and still do all of this stuff _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2434 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Flugel mouthpieces |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | This is my opinion on the flugelhorn mouthpiece selection ... These are the reasons I advocate a medium cup depth on the flugel. A extreme deep mouthpiece certainly gives the dark sound some like but in actual performance conditions that makes life more difficult. |
I'm also a fan of medium cup depth flugelhorn mouthpiece. For me, a deep flugelhorn cup (like the Curry FLD) is harder to keep in tune. I currently use a Yamaha 13F4, which has a similar rim to my Bach 6C trumpet mouthpiece.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7016 Location: AZ
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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JonathanM wrote: | Tony, great thoughts that might often be overlooked. Very good.
I’ve felt, having never played flugel enough to get used to it’s less than stellar intonation quirks, that extra-deep cups exacerbate tuning problems, and that modest sized mouthpieces allow one to play in tune a bit easier. I had a Benge 5 flugel; notorious for intonation problems, but a modest sized cup certainly helped. |
The Benge 5 Flugelhorn is hardly a worthy candidate for judging flugels on the whole. No amount of practice is enough to overcome THAT horn's problems.
The Kanstul-made flugelhorns I've owned have all played in tune with whatever size cup I used, except for my 1025 with a modular Kanstul mouthpiece, which was too long and could not be brought up to pitch. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1560 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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This may not be germane to your search, but perhaps of interest as you look for mouthpieces. When I was trying out flugelhorns, I had a large Morse taper mouthpiece (ACB). When I purchased a flugelhorn (which I wound up doing based on the sound I heard, unable to try more horns during the pandemic), I wound up with one that uses a small Morse taper. The horn came with a Bach MP, which was much lighter weight than my ACB one. I tried it for awhile then ordered an ACB one with the proper taper, but it was also a good deal lighter than the same sized one I had with the large taper and I was not fully satisfied. So I finally got a Taylor mouthpiece. All three are the same rim diameter, but the Taylor has the most heft. I like the sound the best too, but it is interesting to play all of them because each creates a different feel. I could see different uses for them, particularly the ACB and the Taylor (not so much the Bach), depending on what I was playing.
I do not know if it is just the Taylor flugelhorn I have, but it seems to give me a fuller, richer sound as the mouthpieces get heavier.
So just a point on the graph when choosing.
On a Yamaha 631, I really liked the ACB mouthpiece. Again plenty of weight in the large taper version. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Bb Cornet: Getzen 800 DLXS
Pic: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Std
Bass Tr: BAC Custom
Nat. Tr: Nikolai Mänttäri Morales Haas replica |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 916
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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I have found that flugelhorns are very mouthpiece sensitive. When I played the Yamaha 631 G, I found that the Warburton deep cup worked the best. I also have the Flip Oakes Extreme flugel mouthpiece which has a great deep, fluffy sound which I prefer. However, the slots pretty much disappear make moving around the horn precarious. But those whole notes...wow! |
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Shawnino Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 255
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:27 am Post subject: |
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@cgaiii: Which Taylor mouthpiece are you using? I'm using the ML on my Phat Boy and it's the only one I've tried so far (Wick 3FL, Carol 3) that complements the horn the way I want it to. |
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nltrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Posts: 206 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:45 am Post subject: |
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The Yamaha 13F4 is very similar to the shew Flugel mouthpiece, just a touch deeper. It’s my mouthpiece of choice, but the 14F4 is also a solid option. |
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