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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:30 am Post subject: Trumpet without mouthpiece receiver + screw |
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Hello,
Thein in Germany makes piston valve trumpet without mouthpiece receiver and a screw.
I know generally in rotary valve trumpet, there is no mouthpiece receiver but in their rotary valve instrument, they didn't put the "screw". Neither on their piston valve C trumpet.
I was wondering :
What is the advantage of not putting a mouthpiece receiver (what about the gap) ?
Why did they put a screw on piston valve trumpet and not on the others ?
Thank you
_________________ Yamaha YTR-6335RC
Yamaha YFH-8310ZG |
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Steve Hollahan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: Mouthpipe receiver. |
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Many early trumpets didn't have "receivers". Conns are most notable. The venturi is in a separate pipe on the inside. _________________ Steve Hollahan
Bach 37, 229 C
Yamaha 9620 D-Eb, 741 C, Flugel
Kanstul 900 piccolo trumpet
Sculptured Recrafting Custom Instrument Repair
and Restoration
www.sculpturedrecrafting.com |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: |
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The Thein website shows that they have interchangeable leadpipes. The screw holds the pipe once it's inserted.
Kent |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 723 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:50 am Post subject: |
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+1 to Kent - I'll add that with this type of removeable setup, you can't see the leadpipe itself when it's fitted to the horn. The part that's visible in the photo is an outer sleeve. The leadpipes probably have a conventional receiver, which also fits inside the sleeve - if so, they would like something like this:
https://www.prozonemusic.com/product/eclipse-leadpipe-for-eclipse-enigma-bb-trumpet-
Even with fixed leadpipes, it's hard to tell whether an instrument has a mouthpiece gap from the outside. Steve has given one example - in the opposite direction, many British cornets have a typical-looking receiver but have no gap.
Piston valve trumpets with gapless leadpipes do exist. It's another option for instrument makers but it's only one of a many design choices which have to work together to make a successful instrument. It would be hard to claim any generalised advantage to this when most makers don't do it on any of their instruments. (Having said that, someone who posts on this forum has modified multiple horns to be like this and reports consistent positive results.)
The Thein rotaries don't have a screw because their leadpipes aren't removeable. The appearance from the outside is pretty typical for rotary trumpets. As to whether they have a gap or not - I think traditional-style rotaries (with a short leadpipe going straight in to the valve block) rarely, or never, do but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Mike
Last edited by Mike Prestage on Sat May 15, 2021 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 631 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:25 am Post subject: |
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@Mike:
For information: my Weimann rotary « Passion » has a removable leadpipe with a gap but no screw. _________________ S’il n’en reste qu’un je serai celui là (Victor Hugo)
Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais) |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 723 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Voltrane wrote: | @Mike:
For information: my Weimann rotary « Passion » has a removable leadpipe with a gap but no screw. |
Thanks - do you happen to know whether the gap is common for rotaries in general?
I've edited out the particularly unhelpful sentence about screws on rotaries. There are, of course, a variety of ways that a removeable leadpipe can be secured!
Mike |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 631 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: |
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No, sorry, no clue about the others! _________________ S’il n’en reste qu’un je serai celui là (Victor Hugo)
Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais) |
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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Those were great answers, thank you !
I should have looked closely to the pictures. In my defense, I just had read an interesting article on French horn in Yamaha's website. And my brain thought "Thein is in Germany, and so what I see is a mix between rotary and piston valve trumpet leadpipes "
Quote: | In contrast with the trumpet, the mouthpiece of a French horn is inserted directly into the leadpipe, and the thin edge of the end of the shank creates a step inside the leadpipe. In general, instruments that have this type of structure have a soft timbre and a lot of flexibility. The receiver on a rotary-valve trumpet has the same structure as that on a French horn, and this is strongly connected with music and the historical development of music. With the horn as well, if the shank is inserted without proper concern for the depth, the result will be the loss of proper resistance, as it did on the piston-valve trumpet discussed earlier. The dimensions of the receiver, where the instrument and the mouthpiece meet, require special care, and they are designed with a delicate balance to get the best performance out of the instrument and the mouthpiece. The loss of certain capabilities has been reported when using mouthpieces of other manufacturers, so when shopping for a mouthpiece, the player must bring his favorite instrument along.
https://www.yamaha.com/en/musical_instrument_guide/horn/selection/selection004.html |
I thought the screw was to hold the mouthpiece but no _________________ Yamaha YTR-6335RC
Yamaha YFH-8310ZG |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 723 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: |
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You're welcome |
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