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Hammbone New Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2021 Posts: 8 Location: midwest
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: Martin Committee questions |
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First - I'm new to the forum and not a trumpeter myself. But my 6th grade son is and I'm trying to help him with his music/trumpeting career. For the record, his main trumpet is an old 1950's King Tempo.
We recently inherited a 1946 Martin Committee from my great-grandfather (so that'd be my son's great-great-grandfather). It appears to be in immaculate shape, other than the silver needs polished. So yes, it's silver/nickel, not brass.
I need advice on how to proceed. First things first, I'd like to have it appraised. What's it worth? (not to sell, but for insurance purposes).
Secondly, what do we do with it? Should we have it tuned up and polished? Should we leave it in the case and not play it?
Thanks. _________________ -Hammbone |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2594
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Martin Committee questions |
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Hammbone wrote: | First - I'm new to the forum and not a trumpeter myself. But my 6th grade son is and I'm trying to help him with his music/trumpeting career. For the record, his main trumpet is an old 1950's King Tempo.
We recently inherited a 1946 Martin Committee from my great-grandfather (so that'd be my son's great-great-grandfather). It appears to be in immaculate shape, other than the silver needs polished. So yes, it's silver/nickel, not brass.
I need advice on how to proceed. First things first, I'd like to have it appraised. What's it worth? (not to sell, but for insurance purposes).
Secondly, what do we do with it? Should we have it tuned up and polished? Should we leave it in the case and not play it?
Thanks. |
Post photos here and you'll get more educated opinions. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 722 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Holy cow!! You need a big safe!
The Martin Committee has an enormous following in the jazz community. Just look up Martin Committee trumpet on eBay. And your example is in a high demand period. Of course, condition is very important. Having said that, not everyone believes in the magic. I would not choose a Committee for any of my playing needs (I was not blessed with the jazz gene AT ALL). Not to say I wouldn't turn one down, but the characteristics that make it fit the jazz mold don't help me. I think since it has such a deep family connection for you, it is well worth having it checked out by a real trumpet technician. Most music stores that are geared to supplying beginner horns and pianos are much more interested in selling you whatever they push, or worse, getting you to trade your Committee in!
Find the guy the pros use in your area, and get a legitimate appraisal. You may just want to securely store it away, or wait until your son is ready to make use of it. _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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mike ansberry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1608 Location: Clarksville, Tn
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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There should be a single digit number under the serial number. A 1,2, or 3. 1 is small bore, 2 is medium, 3 is large. This factor makes a big difference in the value of the horn. _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt. |
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craigtrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1192 Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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A '46 Committee in immaculate shape would be worth a fair amount of money. If it's a #3 bore it's value goes up significantly. I would highly recommend not having your 6th grader use this horn. It'd be like letting a 16 year old who just got his permit drive a mint vintage Ferrari. _________________ "Run towards your problems, not from them" |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9151 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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If it was me and you weren't ware of its condition, I'd send it to Jim Becker at Osmun Music, tell him what your intentions are and look out! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 658
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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To OP: insure the horn for the cost of replacement, which would be roughly $3000
The Martin company no longer exists, so you can’t buy a new one should this one get stolen or damaged beyond repair. “Street price” for a nice Committee is $1800-2400, with pristine examples or professionally restored instruments exceeding that range. A large bore example (indicated with a “3” stamped below the serial number on the middle valve) would go for $4000-6000 on the open market. Condition and originality are the biggest factors that determine value. Repairs, replaced parts, or modifications all detract from the value of a vintage instrument. If you have it serviced, make sure it is done by a highly reputable repair technician. |
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Hammbone New Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2021 Posts: 8 Location: midwest
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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OP here.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I will indeed post pics once I figure out how to do it. Every forum is different and it looks like I need to find a storage location. I used to use photobucket years ago, but that's no longer free, so I'll have to figure something else out. (suggestions welcome)
The SN is 161491. I do not see any other numbers stamped on it anywhere. I measured the I.D. of the bore of the #2 slide and it measures .450". From some quick searching, that looks to be a "medium bore"? Not sure if that's right or if I did that right. As far as condition, I'm telling you there isn't a dent, ding, or scratch on it. If it were polished, you'd swear it was brand new. Although, it is a little stinky, so any tips there are welcome too.
I do plan to insure this trumpet. I called my insurance company today (State Farm) and they said I need to have it "appraised". Not sure if this forum is sufficient, or if they need something more official? (This groups seem to be as official as official gets when it comes to trumpets).
I live very close to a major university (Big10 school) with a reputable jazz ensemble. I wonder if the professor would be a good resource or be able to point me in the right direction? _________________ -Hammbone |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9151 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Goby wrote: | The Martin company no longer exists, so you can’t buy a new one |
https://www.martinbrasswind.com _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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While I think it is great that family is attempting to resurrect the Martin company, I personally would wait for the dust to settle and the unsolicited reviews to happen before purchasing what is intended to be a clone of the original.
I mean no disrespect to them, but things I have read on here, like Kanstul closing, BAC ramping up, etc, just tingle my spidey sense.
Ymmv
Back to our regularly scheduled thread… |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: |
While I think it is great that family is attempting to resurrect the Martin company, I personally would wait for the dust to settle and the unsolicited reviews to happen before purchasing what is intended to be a clone of the original.
I mean no disrespect to them, but things I have read on here, like Kanstul closing, BAC ramping up, etc, just tingle my spidey sense.
Ymmv
Back to our regularly scheduled thread… |
I agree.
While it's good that some in the family cares and wants to resurrect the Martin brand and name - it's a resurrection.
The old company is long gone. Even the LeBlanc version is at least 15 years gone. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9151 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Oh I agree. For me it's radioactive. Many more substantial reviews and a track record before I would get one.
But that doesn't have anything to do with the the quote that Martin is out of business vs. their current web site. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Oh I agree. For me it's radioactive. Many more substantial reviews and a track record before I would get one.
But that doesn't have anything to do with the the quote that Martin is out of business vs. their current web site. |
This is how I interpreted your post. But as the OP stated:
Hammbone wrote: | This groups seem to be as official as official gets when it comes to trumpets. |
I didn’t want anybody to enter a transaction without being fully informed. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2594
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Goby wrote: | To OP: insure the horn for the cost of replacement, which would be roughly $3000 |
I agree that a 2 bore of this vintage in immaculate condition would be adequately insured at a figure of $3,000 although I think it would be difficult to get that much if the horn was put up for sale. Usually a 2 bore in the desired serial number range (under 210,000) won't bring $3,000 unless it is in immaculate condition AND is a Deluxe model. The OP's serial number predates the introduction of the Deluxe model by many years.
One issue for me is that the horn is silver plated. Does that increase the value, decrease the value or leave the value alone? I don't know. A purest collector would want the lacquered version because none of the famous jazz artists who played a Committee played a silver plated Committee. They all played the lacquered versions.
Nonetheless, I think $3,000 of insurance coverage is a safe amount equal to at least 100% of the reasonably expected value of the horn. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1991 Location: WI
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hammbone wrote: | I used to use photobucket years ago, but that's no longer free, so I'll have to figure something else out. (suggestions welcome) |
I recommend Imgur. You have to create an account for yourself, but it's free, and once you upload pictures there, it provides various types of links you can paste into posts like this to have the image appear directly in the post.
Hammbone wrote: | As far as condition, I'm telling you there isn't a dent, ding, or scratch on it. If it were polished, you'd swear it was brand new. Although, it is a little stinky, so any tips there are welcome too. |
You need to have an expert brass technician look at the horn to make sure there aren't any hidden issues (e.g., "red rot", where condensation in the horn from years of playing causes the zinc to leach out of the brass alloy -- your horn is almost certainly silver plated brass, not solid silver; also, the valves may be heavily worn and thus leaky, which would affect the playing qualities of the horn). Some of the highly reputed technicians in the U.S. include Charlie Melk (Griffin, GA), Steve Winans (AKA "Dr. Valve", Lemont, IL), Mark Metzler (Elkhart, IN), Rich Ita (Marietta, GA), Josh Landress (New York, NY), and Robb Stewart (Santa Clarita, CA).
Hammbone wrote: | I do plan to insure this trumpet. I called my insurance company today (State Farm) and they said I need to have it "appraised". Not sure if this forum is sufficient, or if they need something more official? (This groups seem to be as official as official gets when it comes to trumpets). |
If your insurance company is like mine (American Family), they will want a formal appraisal written on stationary with the company letterhead of the appraiser. Many of the brass technicians I listed above will do an appraisal, usually for a set fee, sometimes for free if you have engaged them to work on the horn.
Hammbone wrote: | I live very close to a major university (Big10 school) with a reputable jazz ensemble. I wonder if the professor would be a good resource or be able to point me in the right direction? |
The professor would be a good resource in this case if they happen to be a trumpet (or at least a brass) player. Then they might be able to recommend a good local brass technician who could provide assessment, appraisal, and (if needed) repair services. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Halflip wrote: | If your insurance company is like mine (American Family), they will want a formal appraisal written on stationary with the company letterhead of the appraiser. Many of the brass technicians I listed above will do an appraisal, usually for a set fee, sometimes for free if you have engaged them to work on the horn. |
The music store and repair shop I worked for (not as a tech) used to do this. We mostly appraised the value like any normal person - used auctions on eBay - but the techs assessed the condition and provided a formal notice on stationary. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Hammbone New Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2021 Posts: 8 Location: midwest
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Here are photos of the trumpet in question:
http://imgur.com/a/W6TnRWw
(Let me know if you guys can't see that link) _________________ -Hammbone |
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F.E. Olds Nut Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Posts: 344 Location: Detroit
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: |
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That indeed a #2 medium bore. That was more or less the standard and was unmarked on the 2nd valve, unlike the #3 bore. _________________ Del Quadro "The Mother" |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9151 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:11 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, for insurance and appraising credibility, both here and in Germany, I always used Musician-specific insurance. Instruments are their business and I always felt more secure when it came collection time.
I don't know if it's still the most secure, but I used Clarion in the U.S. and Sinfonima in Germany. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1456
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Sell it, buyva Bach 37. It's worth 3500 in that condition |
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