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_PhilPicc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2002 Posts: 2286 Location: Clarkston, Mi. USA
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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BKC wrote: | To keep the C clip from flying away and landing who knows where,
do the removal operation inside a big zip-lock type plastic
bag. Being clear, you can see what you are doing and if the clip
pops out, it will be inside the bag.
This sounds like Heloise. |
Seems like a good design to me. _________________ Philip Satterthwaite
We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I’m curious- if the valves need to be oiled on a regular basis, is there a problem if you don’t play the horn for extended periods?
I’m actually a sax player exploring cornet and trombone so I’m likely to have long periods where the horn just sits in the case _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6201
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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As one never knows when the "extended time off" is going to start, it is good practice to flush the horn and valve crooks with water, blow out the water, and oil the valves at the end of each practice day. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3349 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Rogerrr wrote: | I’m curious- if the valves need to be oiled on a regular basis, is there a problem if you don’t play the horn for extended periods? ... |
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If 'extended periods' means more than 6 months, then make sure that all water is drained, and wipe the valves and apply fresh oil. It's also important that the horn be stored in 'normal living space' - not in a damp basement, or in a hot/cold attic.
For periods of just a few weeks or months, then just normal handling should be enough.
When the horn will again be used, re-oil the valves and check whether the slides need to be re-greased. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1865 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Rogerrr wrote: | I’m curious- if the valves need to be oiled on a regular basis, is there a problem if you don’t play the horn for extended periods?
I’m actually a sax player exploring cornet and trombone so I’m likely to have long periods where the horn just sits in the case |
Yes - if "extended" means more than 2 or 3 weeks. Even if oiled with valve oil. You might consider stuffing some silicone grease or very heavy weight oil in it for storage. Apply some valve oil to flush it out when you are ready to play. It depends on the water key. Some are fine after months without use - others you have to watch after even a couple of weeks. |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.pollardwaterkey.com/aboutkey
Pollard water keys look to be an improvement (no small parts to lose). I haven't had them installed yet, but I am thinking about having them installed on my new Getzen cornet when it arrives.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I have horns with Amados, Saturn and “versions” of Amados, (Adams and Carol Brass). IMO, the best are the Amado-type that Adams uses, very smooth and they seem to empty the best. And no C clips.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1965
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:24 am Post subject: "Amado" type waterkeys |
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Valve oiling your Amado waterkeys is OK but when Ray Amado designed these in 1968, he developed a synthetic product for lubricating them. Ray never had a chance to bring this product to market as he passed away too soon. I agree with the bad raps the original Amado keys have gotten over the years as in sticking, not getting rid of the moisture etc. Of course I have chimed in many times telling the posters that cleaning the keys is the most important thing you can do. Taking them apart for thorough cleaning can be a drag what with the circlip and end plate sometimes flying into the black hole in your shop. Stocking spare parts is a must if you're inclined to disassemble them yourself. The new and improved versions appear to be a better way to go and on my Scodwell USA instruments I've chosen to use the Carol Brass waterkey which eliminates the circlip and end plate by having a screw on/off end cap. Another advantage is the 1/8th drill size opening allowing more moisture to get out. Ray Amado did a similar modification in the 80's only he utilized a plastic snap cap to replace the circlip and endplate. DEG was the only company using this design and today Monette uses this style waterkey. Lubrication as always is important and my choice is a product called "SpaceFiller", a synthetic light lubricant which lasts a long time and provides smooth operation.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 621 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I've found the lighter the oil, the better. I use the same thing I use on my valves for my 900, Monster's Doc's Juice.
Occasionally, and I mean very occasionally, they will gum up a little bit between baths. A couple blasts of canned air cleans them right out. |
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BadHomreSure Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2020 Posts: 42
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Brad361 wrote: | I have horns with Amados, Saturn and “versions” of Amados, (Adams and Carol Brass). IMO, the best are the Amado-type that Adams uses, very smooth and they seem to empty the best. And no C clips.
Brad |
Interesting. I had continuous problems with air leaks through the water key on both Adams I've owned, regardless of oiling/cleaning. They seemed to be far more fickle than normal Amados. I'd spend a few days thinking my intonation had gone out the window, until I'd realize the key was leaking again. I gave up and got a Saturn on my A4 and all's well. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9100 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:50 am Post subject: |
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xxx _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2183 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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My 42+ year old Getzen Eterna flugel has Amado keys and they still work great. They occasionally get stiff if I don't play if for awhile, but a drop of valve oil has always solved the problem. Same with my Eterna 700 trumpet. As long as I keep it clean there's no problem with the spit valves. My Getzen Capri cornet is pre-Amado, but even with the lever keys the shape of the horn requires me to pull the slides and shake the water out after every session. Not sure how useful the Amado keys would be on that horn. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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BadHomreSure Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2020 Posts: 42
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: |
A shot in the dark and a little heretical considering Adams' reputation, but is it possible your spitholes are uneven? |
Adams QC is definitely not perfect. I've had to tweak a few things on my current horn to get it up to its potential--basic things like fixing the alignment of the first valve slide so that I could get it to slide without popping my thumb out of joint. My former Adams had other QC issues. That said, after the tweaks it's a great horn. The horn design is spot-on, think it's the QC where Adams falls short (in my admittedly limited experience).
The Adams Amado-style key just seemed to have a tendency to get misaligned through normal use. I could always fix it by taking it apart and reassembling, but it seems crazy to me to have to do that every few weeks. Not sure if I just happened to get two bad keys, or if it's the design itself. Certainly don't come across it much in the forums here. |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 737 Location: SE US
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:01 am Post subject: |
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spitvalve wrote: | My 42+ year old Getzen Eterna flugel has Amado keys and they still work great. They occasionally get stiff if I don't play if for awhile, but a drop of valve oil has always solved the problem. |
+1
Occasional speedbumps here as well, but always easily fixed with a little oil and sometimes bent paperclip assistance and back in service!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9100 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:28 am Post subject: |
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@Jim Becker or other techs and players -
Does it make any difference how a horn plays or sounds if the Amado or conventional spit keys are swapped out? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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