View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
steve0930 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2018 Posts: 195
|
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:00 am Post subject: High Notes for an Easy Warm Up and Warm Down Routine? |
|
|
Happy New Year Trumpet Players,
Good Morning You the Jury
I showed my Number 1 supporter an Anthony Plog page of warm up exercises, "easy notes" at the bottom of and below the staff. I then inverted the page/ turned it upside down to give the effect of a page of notes above the staff and asked "what if for some players like me infact it's the other way round and these are the easy notes to warm up with?"
So started a 1 month experiment...
But let me put my case.
Background
In the five years I have been playing trumpet I have never felt I have felt I have owned a good warm up that works for me but how could I with all good conscience skip the warm up? I have tried 5 or 6 lauded warm up approaches including the Greg Wing 20 minute warm up posted on TH recently - 3 pages of "easy" notes with a c above the staff on the last line of the 3rd page.
My mind set is that after an hour or so of warm up I could be ready for an A above the staff - and on a good day a C above the staff.
I might have 3 or 4 "poor lip" days a month when I could not play easily above the staff.
The germ of an idea
A month or so ago:
On a TH "Lionel" thread there was stimulating debate about high versus low. One very accomplished player made the point that if you're struggling at one level of range it would be absurd to then try and play at a higher level.
I listened to a trumpet podcast discussing the secret of high notes - a lead player blithely announced "well I'm a lead layer so High notes are easy for me"
One day my lips were not feeling great - I was struggling with notes in the staff - so in a moment of cussedness I went for Flexus Ex 9 page 22 - a line of music 24 notes at top of or above the staff (highest being c above the staff) On my "struggling-in-the-staff- lips the line of music came out as easy as you like. This got me thinking.
The proposition
Yes - we should warm up with "Easy notes" but is it possible the for some trumpet players - easy notes are high notes - (irrespective of the player's level of proficiency and how well he or she can play those high notes)?
Players in this category will for example be experiencing good results with a Rolled in (Balanced Embouchure players who find RI exercises easy) lip set up or a relatively closed embouchure set up. If these players start their daily warm with notes in the staff - or even worse below the staff - these notes for these players are the hard notes - taking tension out of the system - indeed detrimental to the player's warm up - to use a rugby expression giving your lips/facial muscles "a hospital pass."
Of course for players with a starting relaxed facial set up a conventional warm up routine in the staff is ideal.
The Experiment
For the last month my warm up routine has been
Horn to my face
Flexus Exercise Nine page 22 x 1
10 minute break
Repeat Ex 9 x 2
35% of Flexus Etude 7 (jumps around a lot eg Ab in staff to g and Ab on top of staff right down to G below the staff then back up to Ab and C above staff)
Repeat Ex 9.
I am now warmed up but during each session during the day I continue to warm up/warm down with easy notes (any thing above the staff)
The Results(30 days experiment)
20 days - Exercise Nine very easy from the get go
4 days - Not easy but get there in the end
6 days - After 3 or 4 attempts and more practise Ex Nine is up an running
______________________________________
2.5 days - strange reverberation problems/ double notes in the staff (really does feel like playing in the staff is the hard bit! I like this.. shows change is afoot)
My new Warm up approach means that every day I am playing easily above the staff, (C above the staff is the 2nd note I play every day)
I am warming up or down with Exercise 9 or equivalent 20x, 30x, 50x a day
My connection through 2.5 octaves now better.
Range: A month ago C above staff my top note (top note being a note I can play at the end of a session easily and with resonance) - now I am moving on to C#, D,
Attitude: Given my mindset that notes above the staff are the easy ones then excess effort now eliminated from the equation. At the end of a 20 minute session if I cannot find say a c above the staff with nothing more than a marginal increase ¹ in effort then why would more effort be the answer for an easy note? Better to experiment with face, rest or play an etude then try again.
Closing Argument
Members of the Jury, a relative novice trumpet player believes, erroneously or not, that is for you to determine, that notes above the staff are the easy ones for his embouchure and uses them rather than traditional warm up routines to both warm up and warm down. How will this trumpet player progress compared with a player who believes and practices the opposite?
The Verdict?
The Jury is out - You may well decide that I am well meaning, intelligent and completely mistaken.
Thanks for reading this far. Best wishes for the New Year,
Stay safe - Steve in Helsinki
Note ¹ I asked my son (studies astrophysics.. good on detail, unlike his Dad) if he could see any difference in my face when i ascended from c in staff to c above staff. I expected his reply to be "no difference Dad" but he replied "I notice a slight increase in definition of your facial muscles" _________________ My Number 1 supporter
http://langdons.com/images/langdon-image.jpg |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
|
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
IMO if you have to put a lot of time and effort into a warmup you're not tuned in to your chops enough.
My need for a warmup diminished the more of a handle on things I got.
I give a pass on this to Doc Severinsen who along with chronic mouthpiece changing is also known for very long warmups. In his case I sense it's more psychological than a genuine physical need.
To clarify - the debate over Lionel's post was that he was asserting an absurdity that *beginners* who don't know which end is up yet should be started out on high notes rather than the conventional way of starting them out on lower notes - he completely ignores that beginners are started that way because that's what they *can* play.
When you've acquired a consistent ability to play a more expanded range what warming up does is remind the involved muscles what needs to happen to play - I believe it was Paganini who said something to the effect of "I need to re-find my technique anew each day". I submit that the more solid awareness you have of specifically what your chops need to do to play throughout whatever your range is, you should need less warmup to re-find it. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:22 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
https://daveballou.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/AnIntegratedWarmup.pdf
or whatever.
"Players in this category will for example be experiencing good results with a Rolled in (Balanced Embouchure players who find RI exercises easy) lip set up or a relatively closed embouchure set up. If these players start their daily warm with notes in the staff - or even worse below the staff - these notes for these players are the hard notes - taking tension out of the system - indeed detrimental to the player's warm up - to use a rugby expression giving your lips/facial muscles "a hospital pass."
Just a point of clarification. If I read this right; it says that The Balanced Embouchure uses rolled-in embouchure for the entire range of the trumpet. It does not. There are exercises that bring the rolled-in embouchure intp the range where a "normal" embouchure setting is used. This is to practice transiting into and out of rolled-in/conventional use. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet
Last edited by kehaulani on Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2485 Location: Northern Ireland
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
steve0930 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2018 Posts: 195
|
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hello Gentlemen
Thanks for the replies already in.
Robert - I agree with you (it makes a nice change to be able to write that!) my new warm up approach opens up my full usable range 5x.. maybe 10x quicker than before so the warm up itself becomes less of an item.
Mike - I saw your post as my Number 1 supporter and I stopped for a drink interval (we were enjoying Downton Abbey - 2nd time around.. ) - good to see someone else singing from the same hymn sheet and I will check out your link - thanks.
Kehaulani - I was talking about RI exercises.
I'm not sure if you and I agree on the main idea of Balanced Embouchure. (BE) In November you wrote on another thread " The Balance Embouchure, which uses a rolled in system graduating to a "normal" embouchure in the middle and low registers." Yesterday you wrote "There are exercises that bring the rolled-in embouchure into the range where a "normal" embouchure setting is used. This is to practice transiting into and out of rolled-in/conventional use."
The genius of BE is its ingenuity - with the RI and RO exercises seperated completely from all the other exercises in the book which Jeff instructs you to perform on your "Normal" embouchure. Over time your normal embouchure then evolves by virtue of RI and RO input - as an intuitive process. I suggest you open a post on the BE forum if you want to discuss this more.
I think BE and Flexus are both brilliant in their focus on taking your lips/tongue/face outside their comfort zone to accelerate intuitive embouchure development.
Best wishes for all
cheers and stay safe Steve in Helsinki _________________ My Number 1 supporter
http://langdons.com/images/langdon-image.jpg |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
steve0930 wrote: | In November you wrote on another thread " The Balance Embouchure, which uses a rolled in system graduating to a "normal" embouchure in the middle and low registers." Yesterday you wrote "There are exercises that bring the rolled-in embouchure into the range where a "normal" embouchure setting is used. This is to practice transiting into and out of rolled-in/conventional use." |
Same thing. It does use a rolled-in embouchure, but not exclusively. The purpose is to use a rolled-in embouchure for high notes and gradually, as it lowers, going into a conventional embouchure. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
|
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have used this kind of practice for about a year now and have experienced an increase of about a whole step of range. So I am a believer!!!
See Chris Gekker or Rich Willey Focal Point books. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
|
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Speaking of getting up and running quick - when I was the Armed Forces School Of Music there was an instructional staff member Senior Chief Ed Rodgers who would do a stunt where he could pop off a BIG high F cold, with any mouthpiece. I saw him do this one night when he came in from a cold night when he was on barracks watch rounds with some bucket of a Schilke mp. I don't recall what the designation was but it felt bigger than my 1C. The only prep he did was to pop the mouthpiece a couple of times to get the resulting C in his head to gauge the F off of. I saw him do this several times - the odd thing was he could do this on mouthpieces that were completely dissimilar to his regular mp which was something he'd had customized so that the rim was basically tabletop flat, with the very inner and outer edges of the rim rounded off just a bit. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CJceltics33 wrote: | So I am a believer!!! |
This sums up quite well the pseudo religious content of threads like this and it also shows in the typography: we are talking about High Notes! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1491 Location: Sweden
|
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
The purpose of warm up time is, to my knowledge, to increase bloodflow of the lips, to enhance elasticity,to prepare the muscles, the very same process as every athlete has to perform in order to prepare the muscles.
To me it seems counter active to begin the day by playing high notes as playing them inevitably will hamper the aforementioned process. Because pressure is needed. Among other things. By pros and amateurs alike.
Yes, I can start the day playing a high C by using the Roll Ins, I can even begin at "high" E.
But this is not the point. By warming up you prepare your lips for a process that ultimately leads to enhanced strength, ability to withstand or lessen the quick build up of lactid acid etc etc, as in all athletics. A gradual "wakening up".
Period.
I don´t think you are a one person species.
And, ehh, the Verdict: I find you guilty of having become a victim of beliefs rather than realistic well thought out strategies. Per se seemingly a galloping trend. _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1036 Location: Europe
|
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Given that there's at least some consensus that a large aspect of playing the trumpet is in fact mental, dismissing something as a 'false belief' seems somewhat too easy. A.k.a. if it works for you, good for you, if not, also good, but don't change just because some random people on the internet disagree with you.
A quick TH search revealed this thread, where some players mention that for them a warm up is not about warming up the muscles, but gettting their chops aligned properly. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
|
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
I like the idea of working in the upper register fairly early in a warm up. For me though, the exercises you have chosen seem like an unnecessarily heavy lift right off the bat. I don't mean the range -- which is what you are experimenting with, after all -- as much as I mean the skipped partials on page 22 #9 and big intervals in etude #7 on page 128.
Perhaps if you chose exercises that got you into your upper register right away without the skipped partials or big intervals you'd have a better sense as to whether the introduction of RANGE (vice range an intervals) early on is helpful.
Good luck!
And, as an aside, I was glad to see Rich Willey's terrific Focal Point mentioned. That book really got me thinking. Chris Gekker's excellent Focal Point Exercises builds on Willey's book. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
|
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Seymor B Fudd wrote: | The purpose of warm up time is, to my knowledge, to increase bloodflow of the lips, to enhance elasticity,to prepare the muscles, the very same process as every athlete has to perform in order to prepare the muscles. |
I believe it's mostly about reminding the chops and support systems what they have to do to function. For many they depend on muscle memory to make it happen - I believe if you have more conscious awareness of what happens, you're able to go to it more directly and don't need a lot of warmup. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1491 Location: Sweden
|
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Robert P wrote: | Seymor B Fudd wrote: | The purpose of warm up time is, to my knowledge, to increase bloodflow of the lips, to enhance elasticity,to prepare the muscles, the very same process as every athlete has to perform in order to prepare the muscles. |
I believe it's mostly about reminding the chops and support systems what they have to do to function. For many they depend on muscle memory to make it happen - I believe if you have more conscious awareness of what happens, you're able to go to it more directly and don't need a lot of warmup. |
My italics! I hold that this is a general feature, for all of us. Whenever you perform a certain activity you start, (or re awaken), a complex feedback loop process that if repeated gets institutionalized so to speak. Or put in other words: you will eventually get the hang of it.
We probably differ when it comes to the necessicity of the warm up; the length, what methods etc etc.
But - this notwithstanding I do hold that a warm up period is necessary.
To "initiate" this process, to get the circulation going etc etc.
Steve´s method reminds me of the common experience of hearing young trumpeters, or beginners, to scream the highest possible note just before the rehearsal begins. I do not think that, in the long run, this will turn out to be good for his development.
He asked for our opinion - I gave mine. I really want him to succeed, to become a good enough trumpeter, to become able to play and enjoy!
Even if the journey is endless.....personally I continue to discover new cues - having played in bands since 1957-8. Stumbled over quite a few during all these years, abandoned quite a few. Search right and thou shalt find, but don´t you ever stop searching.
By the way - by "belief" I meant newly found ideas (popping up) that seemingly attain the position of becoming the truth - not being subjected to evaluation after a longer period. ("by Georg I think I´ve discovered the Holy Grail - this is "it" - this is the truth")
But then I´m a sceptical guy always wanting to sort things out, in due time.
However - everyone´s entitled to his/her opinion. _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
|
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Seymor B Fudd wrote: | Robert P wrote: | Seymor B Fudd wrote: | The purpose of warm up time is, to my knowledge, to increase bloodflow of the lips, to enhance elasticity,to prepare the muscles, the very same process as every athlete has to perform in order to prepare the muscles. |
I believe it's mostly about reminding the chops and support systems what they have to do to function. For many they depend on muscle memory to make it happen - I believe if you have more conscious awareness of what happens, you're able to go to it more directly and don't need a lot of warmup. |
My italics! I hold that this is a general feature, for all of us. Whenever you perform a certain activity you start, (or re awaken), a complex feedback loop process that if repeated gets institutionalized so to speak. Or put in other words: you will eventually get the hang of it.
We probably differ when it comes to the necessicity of the warm up; the length, what methods etc etc.
But - this notwithstanding I do hold that a warm up period is necessary.
To "initiate" this process, to get the circulation going etc etc.
Steve´s method reminds me of the common experience of hearing young trumpeters, or beginners, to scream the highest possible note just before the rehearsal begins. I do not think that, in the long run, this will turn out to be good for his development. |
I'm not familiar with the Flexus exercises, he says his second note of the day is a high C. To be honest some of what he posts seems to be unclear such as this:
Quote: | The Results(30 days experiment)
20 days - Exercise Nine very easy from the get go
4 days - Not easy but get there in the end
6 days - After 3 or 4 attempts and more practise Ex Nine is up an running |
Seems to be out of order.
But my general sense is the length of his warmup is overly long. Further if he's having problems playing notes in or below the staff, I submit there's a fundamental issue with his playing mechanics he needs to address. I personally have *never* had the experience of the notes on the staff being harder than the higher notes.
As far as the stuff about starting beginners on high notes I regard it as nonsense and have already beaten it to death in a couple of other recent threads.
Here's where I'm coming from - once upon a time I couldn't have played an F over high C no matter how much warmup I did.
These days while not my ideal or normal warmup I find I can start off cold playing say a C scale from low C to F over high C.
The difference between back when and now is that I've acquired a much more keen awareness of what's going on when playing higher - what I do with various areas of the embouchure, teeth opening, intrusion of the lips over the teeth, horn angle.
What a lot of people do - what *I* used to do is kind of coax the chops along gradually expanding the range they go for while warming up and wait/hope for things to fall into place without a really strong awareness of what they do to play throughout their normal range.
If things don't quite get there they declare it a "bad day". I basically *never* have a day like that. I fully expect that within a couple of minutes I should be able to play G and Ab over high C. The horn never changes so there's no reason to not get the exact same results if I do the exact same things. Sure eventually I'll get fatigued but it's a predictable curve and I can feel it coming on.
Or more accurately, my process of warming up is far more compressed than it used to be. Some chromatics up and down ala Clarke's from first space F# to third space C, G to C#, some low notes. Then maybe top line F# to high C and back down, then expand chromatically to F, G, Ab over high C. Might even go for dub C - which is happening more frequently.
I don't know about "stimulating blood flow" - blood is flowing already. It seems that the mouthpiece pressure squeezes blood out of the impacted areas. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
steve0930 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2018 Posts: 195
|
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello and thanks for the replies.
This thread getting better and better with all the input. So just to clarify my Flexus Exercise 9 page 22 is shown here at 5mins 35sec:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwS06i3NqA&t=16s&ab_channel=RyanDarke
I pick up the horn for the first time in the day and play this once through only, at speed shown on you tube on Ryan's first run through. Total playing time 30 seconds.
I then have a 10 minute rest.
I then play Exercise 9 twice and then 6 to 8 bars of a Flexus flexibility etude.
I then might play for example Chet Baker (today it was "You Go To My Head 38 bars of music quickly - say 2mins (Chet does it in 2.4 ) I then warm down with a repeat of Exercise 9.
Total playing time say 6 minutes. Then 10 minute rest and my warm up/muscle memory wake up/ alignment process is complete.
When I got Flexus in Oct 20 Exercise 9 was hard for me (I would even stop half way through) Now it is easy. I guess You are right Dayton - sometimes I clip the missing partial but this doesn't bother me - I am focusing on the higher partial coming out with the same ease you see on the video.
Hard versus Easy notes?
Robert sorry not to be clear - I don't have any difficulty playing notes in or below the staff but I did have difficulty in finding an effective and reliable warm up routine which meant I was prone to good and bad days and on a poor day I might not even make an easy C above the staff in the course of the whole day! (remember I am a novice and have been playing C for only 3 or 4 months) Now I can play a high c easily with no increase in effort (although my Son can witnesses a slight increase in definition of facial muscles) at any point in the day.
How so? Because I have worked out that for me notes above the staff are the easy notes. How do I work that out?
RI/RO Index.
I'm not really the analytical type but here goes - is it possible that every embouchure has an element of Roll In (tension) and Roll out (less tension - although still pushing the horn off your face forward movement) Every person has a unique RO/RI "lip print" ¹ .Books like Balanced Embouchure (BE) and Flexus are designed to help the player then to find his or her optimal balanced embouchure.
So if your RO/RI index is RO weighted then you are all set for notes in the middle of the staff and below (depending on amount of your RO bias) and traditional warm up routines which loosens your lips are perfect for you BUT if your RO/RI index is RI weighted then the easy notes are for example those in Exercise 9 and a traditional start - focusing on the notes in the staff, or even worse, below the staff, can be counter productive - loosens up your RI biased embouchure and gives you another "poor lip" day. (Because you can always play the notes in the staff it's not obvious what the underlying reason for the poor lip day is - so the problem may never correct itself)
For someone who doesn't find a C above the staff ever easy (and that was me 4 month ago) then if my logic holds good if you have an RI bias then you might still be better off warming up with say playing notes at F or G on top of the staff as opposed to something lower.
Today with the Chet Baker piece - 4 minutes into my warm up the f's and the g (only 1 but I wished there would be 10..) at the top of the staff were effortlessly popping out clear as a bell - they were the easy notes whereas the a and b below the staff were muffled and not clear - the hard notes... but I know that because I have another good lip day in front of me below the staff notes will soon be very easy (and to be honest what do I care if after 5 minutes of my trumpet day my A below the staff is a bit "iffy" If my C# or a D above the staff is flying out effortlessly - this is the High Note forum.. )
Long tone C above the staff
Nice of you Stuart(issimo) to do the search - thanks. In that 2006 thread you see Stradlover describing his new warm up routine where Cs above the staff (long tones) are his go to opening notes & how it was impacting on his playing (Might be of interest to you Seymor cos a) he has done it for "a few months" b) clearly he is far superior player to me. c) BE practitioner (Like you and I)
Hope this helps and looking forward to your comments - that's why we're here - and nice Seymor to know that you have my best interests at heart - that's just the way this forum should go..
cheers and stay safe Steve in Helsinki
Note ¹.
Each player's RO/RI lip print evolves over time. (The Trumpet Police would hate that!) Before BE my RO/RI index was significantly RO weighted. - very open embouchure - 18 months into BE I now have significant RI bias but of course both are needed- now I am spending more time above staff I notice how important the RO element is as I have sensation of pushing horn off the face. _________________ My Number 1 supporter
http://langdons.com/images/langdon-image.jpg |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
|
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
steve0930 wrote: |
Hard versus Easy notes?
Robert sorry not to be clear - I don't have any difficulty playing notes in or below the staff |
This ^ doesn't seem to jive with this:
Quote: | I have worked out that for me notes above the staff are the easy notes. |
Are you saying a high C which I gather is pretty much the top of your range is easier for you than say anything on the staff?
I'm skeptical. I can knock the stew out of G and Ab over high C and I don't consider high C to be "hard" but notes on the staff are easier than notes above the staff. I submit that's true for everyone, even if you're prime years Maynard's clone. Reality being what it is, it takes more air pressure and embouchure tension to play a high C than a third space C - i.e. more effort.
This "RI/RO index" aside I think it would be very simple to put you through some paces to demonstrate that what you're saying simply isn't reality. I guarantee you could be fatigued to the point where high C is a struggle or won't come out, but notes on the staff will be readily achievable, at least if you're being honest. I assert that the opposite will *never* be true.
If you give an honest effort I bet you can hold say a G on the staff out longer than you can a high C. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
|
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | I guess You are right Dayton - sometimes I clip the missing partial but this doesn't bother me - I am focusing on the higher partial coming out with the same ease you see on the video. |
You'll do what works for you. My point is simply that if your goal is to introduce the upper register right away in your warm up to see if it helps, you are introducing unnecessary challenges (skipped partials and big intervals). If, for example, you took Flexus, page 22 #9 and added the skipped partials -- turning each phase into a triplet (G-Bb-C, B-A-F#, etc.) you'd only have one variable instead of two. That would seem to make it easier to see if your experiment is working. Either way, good luck. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rapier232 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 1323 Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
|
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting thread.
Coming from a British Brass Band background, we (I), never paid much attention to any warm up. 20 years ago we’d turn up, get out our instruments and then together we’d play a couple of hymn tunes. That was it, then full rehearsal. If you are a Contest Band you might have a short rehearsal before going onstage. But It could be ages before you go on. You are not allowed to play any notes at all until you start the test piece. So we (I ) got used to not warming up.
Now, 30 years later and now on trumpet instead of cornet and tenor horn, I might run the C scale once or twice, but that’s all. Same if I’m in a Pit Band, run a scale a couple of times and I’m good to go. Even just the tuning note seems to be enough to set me up. Granted I’m not the greatest trumpet player and never will be, but I get by. Maybe I’m doing it all wrong, but I’ll never know. 😎 _________________ "Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3366 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Another view -
Don't become dependent on a longish (or especially high range) warm-up for every playing situation.
For private & individual practice sessions, sure - do what you want.
But when in a group or where there's an audience, it might not give good results to do a warm-up routine that is noticeably different or intrusive.
Don't get caught in a self-imposed 'mind game' that you MUST do your standard warm-up every time. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|