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Rolf Svanoe New Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2022 Posts: 1 Location: Decorah, Iowa
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:20 pm Post subject: Aging Lips |
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I am 67 years old and recently retired. I've been playing on and off for 50+ years. Recently my lips don't want to respond as well as they used to. My high notes and low notes are gone and the mid range doesn't sound as full anymore. this happens when I'm buzzing the mouthpiece (Stamp Warmups) or on the trumpet. I think there is some loss of collagen and lip elasticity. I'm also wondering if there is something besides practice that can help to correct this? Anyone else have a similar problem? Any ideas? |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Do you use any kind of lip balm before you practice/play? I must confess, at 70, I have tried many things short of voodoo to keep my chops moisturized in certain situations. After many trials, I have zeroed in on Carmex when I use a balm. It's mostly a winter thing in my case.
Many discussions regarding lip balms on TH!
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1012395
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1417859
Paste site:trumpetherald.com lip balms
into your search engine, you'll get lots more:
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2046 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Your lips do change as you age. That could be affecting your embouchure. Take lessons if you aren't already. Your teacher can help you figure out if any changes to your embouchure or mouthpiece might help address those changes.
I'll add that if you've been playing on-and-off for 50 years, and have recently begun playing a lot more, fatigue could also be an issue. You could try taking a day or two off, and then gradually ramping your practice back up. See if that helps.
Good luck! |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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And you might share that with your doctor next time you pay him/her a visit, too. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JensenW Regular Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 67 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps some of the advice forum members gave me about "morning lips" might be helpful. _________________ Wade
Yamaha YTR 737
The goal is to be a better trumpeter today than I was yesterday. |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3260 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | this happens when I'm buzzing the mouthpiece (Stamp Warmups) |
STOP buzzing as a warmup. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I’m also 67. The only thing wrong with my playing is my lack of concentration. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Uberopa Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 931 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi fellow trumpet geriatrics,
I am 71 years old with Type 2 diabetes. I would suggest staying well hydrated. It is easy to become dry especially in the winter climes of Canada. I also think that if one has been playing for fifty years that we get too used to routines that have worked in the past. As our minds and bodies change perhaps the old familiar practice routines need to move along with us. As a younger man I buzzed my mouthpiece like a rabid mosquito. There came a point where it seemed to stiffen rather than loosen my chops. I have successfully lived without it since.
Certainly having 'leather lips" is unpleasant so hydrate, get an indoor humidier if your home is dry, moisturize your lips and face, limit your outdoor exposure and ask your doc if there is anything else to be done.
Good luck. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry do be doing this, but I'm 77 and I don't hydrate almost at all, and I have no physical problem with my lips. Which, I guess, is getting back to the Forum saying that what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for all.
However, this is something you could look at and see if it works for you. If it does, that would be great. But if it doesn't, don't be discouraged into thinking that you're alone. Just look elsewhere and keep at it. And share it with your doctor. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have heard of people who for different reasons have trouble with continuing to play as they get older. Possibilities seem to be:
(1) something physical has changed (damage, effects of aging, etc.)
(2) you're doing less practice or the wrong practice (how do you sound on lyrical music you like?)
(3) something environmental is affecting you (low humidity, etc.).
If you can't get your mojo back on trumpet, some people move to another instrument. I'm middle age, but I am trying low brass because I find it to be really fun and I feel like it takes less work on the traditional trumpet louder/faster/higher spectrum. Some people with chops injuries move to bass trumpet or trombone (or euphonium or flugabone). |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:54 am Post subject: |
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Or, you can stop playing when you are 29 and don't start playing again until you are 79, which is what I did, and with all the changes of aging you just go back to basics and learn to play all over again.
The first change I had to make was the mouthpiece. I used a Bach New York 10.5C for the twelve years I played before quitting, but that no longer worked. I discovered that anything with a .640 to .650 " ID worked. Once I found the right mp everything started to come together quickly. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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rdpyle Regular Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2020 Posts: 16 Location: Boston-ish
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:26 am Post subject: |
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kalijah wrote: | Quote: | this happens when I'm buzzing the mouthpiece (Stamp Warmups) |
STOP buzzing as a warmup. |
There is nothing wrong with buzzing PROVIDED you are doing it correctly. ANY exercise can be played incorrectly, and be detrimental. It matters far more HOW you practice than WHAT you practice.
This all seems like something that should be discussed with your doctor and a good teacher, not strangers on the internet.
-Robin |
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Sustained note Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 643 Location: Givat Shmuel, Israel
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Why buzz if the moment you play the trumpet you completely change the way you produce the tone (hint: you do not buzz)?
Sure, many top players teach buzzing but I think it's because they were taught this way. It makes no sense to me.
Wait, got to put my helmet on... _________________ Michael Greenberg
Giv'at Shmuel
Israel
Trumpet: Schilke B1 (2005)
Mouthpiece: Schilke Soloiste MG1
(Marc Geujon) gold plated
----------------
Keep a sense of humor. |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3260 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Why buzz if the moment you play the trumpet you completely change the way you produce the tone (hint: you do not buzz)?
Sure, many top players teach buzzing but I think it's because they were taught this way. It makes no sense to me. |
You will get no flak from me.
Just to point out, i wrote: Do not buzz as a WARMUP.
I think buzzing CAN be useful if done in limited amounts, at a particular time, and in a particular way.
It should rarely be used for warmup if everything is working well. And it should NEVER be introduced to beginners.
Last edited by kalijah on Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2333 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:33 am Post subject: |
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I agree that buzzing is a useful tool for certain things but not really warming up nor do most players perform it properly or understand the point. As someone else pointed out, it is unlike what we do on the instrument when we play, so why practice something else?
Good players might buzz to refine a well executed process, undeveloped players doing it improperly gain nothing and without guidance can lead you down a confusing rabbit hole.
Everything we do has an impact on the chops. From the food we eat, what we drink and when, to weight gain or loss, physical condition, medical conditions, and mental state, So aging a big part of that. Chops change, consistent thoughtful practice is needed - which includes continued learning -> lessons with a knowledgable teacher.
I'm 62 and been performing for 40+ years, it still takes daily review to stay ontop of chops / technique.
Taking care of nature first - diet/hydration, sleep, exercise - to include skin care (chops) I've found ChopSaver to be very helpful all year, but especially in the winter.
take lessons, daily practice.... _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:30 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: |
I'm 62 and been performing for 40+ years, it still takes daily review to stay ontop of chops / technique.
Taking care of nature first - diet/hydration, sleep, exercise - to include skin care (chops) I've found ChopSaver to be very helpful all year, but especially in the winter. |
+1
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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gstump Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:53 am Post subject: |
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I am 76. The lips and the muscles around the lips are just there waiting for air. Loss of lung capacity and power happens as we age. And it starts fairly early in the aging process. In my opinion my breathing system now has me topped out at D. Don't tell anybody. _________________ Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student |
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B935 Regular Member
Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:08 pm Post subject: aging lips |
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Yes. I went through this 4 years ago when I hit 70. Besides the lips becoming smaller and tighter your teeth can also shift and your jaw can become narrower and also protrude. I had studied with a chop doc in philly in 1967 and was analyzed from the neck up. I was given a set of rules of what I should do when I ascend and descend. Mainly becuse of my teeth shiting the rules changed. I made the adjustments to the rules and I got my chops back.
Best of luck,
Pete |
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MalinTrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 545 Location: Delray Beach, Florida
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:56 pm Post subject: Aging Chops |
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I’m 73 and have been playing 63 years. For most of my life I had strong chops: I performed the Brandenburg as well as lots of other Baroque; performed 1st trumpet on Mahler #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Ein Heldenleiben, Pictures, The Planets…
I also had a beautiful sound with lots of depth. I usually warmed up for about 20 minutes.
Now it takes me about 40 minutes to warm up. Sometimes I have to work at just getting a vibration. 4 years ago I attended Malcolm McNab’s camp and started to do Stamp warmups every day. I still do them religiously.
A few weeks ago I switched from a 1 1/4 C with a 24 throat to a stock 5B. (Ironically, when I started studying with Vacchiano in 1966 he told me to play a 5B.)
A very important consideration for seniors: I take many medications and some of them affect the texture of my lips.
Lastly, I still practice everyday and love playing 3rd trumpet in our community band! |
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Bethmike Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2020 Posts: 194 Location: NW of ORD
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Malin Trumpet wrote:
Quote: | Lastly, I still practice everyday and love playing 3rd trumpet in our community band! |
Aging happens, giving up doesn't have to happen. You are enriching your life with music, and you are enriching the lives of the audience with music.
Keep on keepin' on! _________________ Bach190ML43
Kanstul 1001
Bach NY7
Yamaha 631 Flugel |
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