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SterlingBell Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2018 Posts: 65
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:47 am Post subject: Do I need a 4 valve flugelhorn? |
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I have a Yamaha 631 that I bought new in 1976 and a 6310Z Bobby Shew flugelhorn. I’m looking at the Adams F4 4 valve flugelhorn. Do I need it? I’ll probably sell the 631 if I do. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I purchased my 4-valve Getzen Eterna back in the 1970s. I got a lot of use out of that 4th valve. I played a lot of Eb and F horn parts in brass ensembles with that 4th valve back in college. I've also use that valve as an intonation aid (as opposed to a 3rd valve trigger).
However, there are some things to consider. That 4th valve adds extra weight to the horn. And you have to consider whether you need to play into the pedal tone range.
Also, the extra range below F# comes with compromises (compare this to a non-compensating euphonium). Those low notes are notably sharp, and require some creativity to get in tune. See the following post for a discussion about fingerings.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1510530#1510530
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Tom LeCompte Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3341 Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Let's start with a simple question. How often when you are playing do you thinkl "I wish I had a 4th valve"? |
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GizB Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 200
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am Post subject: |
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When a trumpeter asks if they need a new horn, the answer is always "Yes." |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Just personal, but if it were only for Jazz, my answer would be "No".
If it was for "classical" applications, my answer is "Maybe". _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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SterlingBell Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2018 Posts: 65
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Mostly if not completely classical. I can get around the 4th valve by jumping octaves, but that kinda interrupts the melody line. I’m not a big fan of the sound of the Getzen 4 valve. It lacks the core that my Yamahas have. It’s use would be tunes at church ceremonies, weddings and the like. Personal use would be Bach Cello Suites. (I kinda play them on Ophecleide and cello.) |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I would strongly encourage the OP to keep one of the 3v flugels as mentioned; you will definitely find times when that sound will be preferred over a 4v as well as the lighter weight.
Last edited by dstpt on Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 7:12 am Post subject: |
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dstpt wrote: | I would strongly encourage the OP to keep one of the 3v flugels as mentioned; you will definitely find times when that sound will be preferred over a 4v as well as the lighter weight. |
Just my personal opinion, but I agree.
I love my 4v Getzen, and there are still occasional times I want that 4th valve. But my main player nowadays is an Olds L-12. It's lighter and more nimble, while the Getzen has a bit more presence along with the extended range.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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nltrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Posts: 206 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 7:14 am Post subject: |
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The Adams F4 is a good instrument. Strangely, the worst note below the staff is pedal C. While I think it plays better than any Getzen 4V’s I’ve tried in every other way, it’s just not a good note. |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2158 Location: Little Elm, TX
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SterlingBell Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2018 Posts: 65
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:13 am Post subject: |
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That helps! |
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Tom LeCompte Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3341 Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 11:06 am Post subject: |
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SterlingBell wrote: | I can get around the 4th valve by jumping octaves, but that kinda interrupts the melody line. |
That's a good answer - in that it explains what you are looking for.
Why not an alto horn? If you are using the 4th valve to play well under the staff, you're likely making your life a lot harder using a soprano voiced instrument than an alto voiced instrument.
Apart from fighting to keep the pitch from getting tubby, the intonation gets trickier and trickier the mroe valves are down.
My answer might be different if yours were "once in a while I need a low F". |
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SterlingBell Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2018 Posts: 65
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Tom LeCompte wrote: | SterlingBell wrote: | I can get around the 4th valve by jumping octaves, but that kinda interrupts the melody line. |
That's a good answer - in that it explains what you are looking for.
Why not an alto horn? If you are using the 4th valve to play well under the staff, you're likely making your life a lot harder using a soprano voiced instrument than an alto voiced instrument.
Apart from fighting to keep the pitch from getting tubby, the intonation gets trickier and trickier the mroe valves are down.
My answer might be different if yours were "once in a while I need a low F". | I do have a valve trombone and an Ophecleide. I’ve got three or four junk alto horns that make nice door stops. |
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cyber_shake Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 769
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Just personal, but if it were only for Jazz, my answer would be "No".
If it was for "classical" applications, my answer is "Maybe". |
Ditto! Couldn’t agree more. _________________ Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com
Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S |
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JoeLoeffler Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2022 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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If you’re going to be playing in an ensemble and trying to cover some French horn parts the answer is “maybe“. If you were playing in an ensemble reading standard Flugelhorn/trumpet parts the answer is “no“. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:18 am Post subject: |
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If you ever play "Pines of Rome". the flicorni parts in the 4th movement can all be played on a 4-valve flugelhorn. And, the parts were written for that instrument, so performing with flugels is the authentic performance instrument. _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Ancientram Regular Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2019 Posts: 86 Location: Fairborn OH USA
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:59 am Post subject: 4 valve Flugel |
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Years ago, I had a wonderful Getzen Eterna 4 valve flugel. Loved it. Used it for intonation and fingering convenience issues. I wouldn't hesitate.
Hope this helps,
Steve |
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SterlingBell Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2018 Posts: 65
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Just bought an Adams F4. Time to put it through its paces. |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 988 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:20 am Post subject: |
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cyber_shake wrote: | kehaulani wrote: | Just personal, but if it were only for Jazz, my answer would be "No".
If it was for "classical" applications, my answer is "Maybe". |
Ditto! Couldn’t agree more. |
Interesting…I’ve been contemplating adding a 4th valve to my trumpet to expand my range in jazz. Being able to play low as well as high would add a whole new dimension to improv I think. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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SterlingBell Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2018 Posts: 65
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Ok. Now I think of it as a soprano euphonium! The fourth valve puts it in that category. Fun! |
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