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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Bill, one of the points in making this book the way it is was so that students could benefit from Reinhardt's routines with a minimum of face to face contact with a Reinhardt-oriented teacher.
There are instructions throughout the book on how to execute the various drills, and if students follow those instructions, the principles behind the routines will begin to take hold after a time. Not overnight, of course, but after continued, persistent practice.
Now, if a student does have access to a Reinhardt-oriented teacher, it's possible that the teacher can help the student detect and iron out any weaknesses that may be holding him back. But Dave Sheetz and I both believe that the consistent study and practice of this regimen will yield better results than working out of most other, less-organized books.
A fellow Reinhardt student commented to me recently that he'd had some gigs and scheduling considerations that prevented him from staying on the plan contained in the book, and that he got better results from going back to the beginning than by trying to start where he left off. It really is a very balanced approach to addressing all areas of development. _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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PhxHorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 2190 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Just as a follow-up, I haven't been able to get down to Tucson to see Kenny Smukel yet. The only time I get down there is for a gig, and the only bandleader I work with down there pays less than scale, and so I'm having trouble justifying the trip. I should probably just go down there for the lesson and keep it "pure"
Anyway, meanwhile I ran into Mike Crotty on a casual last weekend, he heard me warming up on #57 and typed me as a IIIB. He said it was pretty obvious that I pull down when ascending. We're going to try to get together sometime in the near future, but I'm curious what this means. Are there any particular traits or pitfalls I need to watch out for?
I've read some of the older threads, which say not to fall in love with your sound in the low register. I take this as advice not to overblow and get spread out. I think I'm making progress in that department, and also trying to maintain steady pressure when playing low, similar to playing higher. Anything else? Should I experiment with how much I pivot when changing registers, etc? |
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bgibson Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2002 Posts: 211
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Could you send a video?
Movement "usually" should be kept to a minimum and one should try not to overpivot.
WEG |
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PhxHorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 2190 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, but I don't have a video camera or the know-how to post videos. |
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Doug Elliott Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 1191 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Crotty knows what he's talking about. He's a IIIB and he studied with Doc for at least several years. |
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PhxHorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 2190 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I got together for 2.5 hours today with Mike Crotty, and learned that I was a textbook IIIB. Apparently I tend to pull down and to the left when escending, and up and to the right when descending. He couldn't see a clear transition point for me. I'm not 100% sure what that means, but I guess that's good. For over 20 years, I used to have major issues getting down into the low register, and back up again. I had to drop my jaw and slide my lower lip out of the mouthpiece, and it was a disaster trying to make a major register change. But I've been playing warmup 57 for a couple years now, and out of the new book for a couple months, and haven't had any such problems since the fall of '05, when I first downloaded warmup 57. Maybe the stuff is working.
Anyway, I mentioned that high register endurance was an issue for me (such as a long rehearsal followed by a show), and he pointed out that I tend to draw my corners back (away from center) when ascending above high C, and talked about chasing the horn. I'd heard that phrase, but didn't really know what it meant. I'd never really thought about that aspect of playing, but when I made a point of drawing the corners forward, towards the center, when ascending, it seemed to help right away.
He also gave me the Arban endurance exercise, keeping the horn on the face until things fall apart. He gave me some other stuff, too. So there's your update. |
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PivotBone Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 429 Location: Amherst Massachusetts
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: |
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PhxHorn wrote: | Well, I got together for 2.5 hours today with Mike Crotty, and learned that I was a textbook IIIB. Apparently I tend to pull down and to the left when escending, and up and to the right when descending. He couldn't see a clear transition point for me. I'm not 100% sure what that means, but I guess that's good. For over 20 years, I used to have major issues getting down into the low register, and back up again. I had to drop my jaw and slide my lower lip out of the mouthpiece, and it was a disaster trying to make a major register change. But I've been playing warmup 57 for a couple years now, and out of the new book for a couple months, and haven't had any such problems since the fall of '05, when I first downloaded warmup 57. Maybe the stuff is working.
Anyway, I mentioned that high register endurance was an issue for me (such as a long rehearsal followed by a show), and he pointed out that I tend to draw my corners back (away from center) when ascending above high C, and talked about chasing the horn. I'd heard that phrase, but didn't really know what it meant. I'd never really thought about that aspect of playing, but when I made a point of drawing the corners forward, towards the center, when ascending, it seemed to help right away.
He also gave me the Arban endurance exercise, keeping the horn on the face until things fall apart. He gave me some other stuff, too. So there's your update. |
Sounds like a great lesson. I hope it all works out for you!
Rich |
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jwilson46 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 478 Location: Hamilton, Montana
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | He also gave me the Arban endurance exercise, keeping the horn on the face until things fall apart. He gave me some other stuff, too. So there's your update. |
Mike Crotty plays great trumpet, sax, and piano....not mention his arranging.
I also know that he understands Reinhardt's teachings. But I'm not familiar with this exercise. I thought that we were never supposed to practice on fatigued chops. Would someone elaborate on this exercise, i.e. purpose, what to play, and how often we should do this.
Thanks, John |
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PhxHorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 2190 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'll let the experts describe it, but it's safe to say you don't want to mess with it until you've been briefed. |
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jwilson46 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 478 Location: Hamilton, Montana
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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I'll let the experts describe it, but it's safe to say you don't want to mess with it until you've been briefed. |
I'm still waiting for the experts to chime in. I studied with Reinhardt for 7 years and I don't remember him prescribing this exercise. But then again I don't always trust my memory.
Thanks, John |
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PivotBone Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 429 Location: Amherst Massachusetts
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
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The endurace routine is also Day 6 in the 7 day routine for professional performers. It is a routine designed to get the player into his/her second wind. This routine has a very specific purpose (bringing on the second wind to improve endurance) and is really unlike any of Reinhardt's other routines. It is probably not a routine to be given out on the forum. If you need any further info on it, or a copy of the 7 day routine, send me a PM.
Rich |
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bgibson Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2002 Posts: 211
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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There is an Endurance Routine A and B, the one using the Arban book is Enduance Routine A.
Great routine, it is defintly Industrial strength.
WEG |
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healey.cj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 2011
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by healey.cj on Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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airdyn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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healey.cj wrote: | If you order more than one book from your site at the same time do you still pay full shipping on both items? |
Hi,
If you mean me and my site www.airstreamdynamics.com ,when Paypal takes out postage for all items (for instance, when ordering 2 items, yes postage is taken as a total for both), this is a flaw in my ordering system. What I do, and you can check other purchasers, is refund anything over the postage that it costs me to send the book(s). So if you purchase 2 books, for instance, and the s & h is $12 and the postage comes to say $5.25, I refund $6.75. Of course, outside USA postage is adjusted and could be more than $12. This is how it works on my site. And I always ship within USA Priority 2day. Thanks for asking.
Dave S. (airdyn) |
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healey.cj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 2011
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by healey.cj on Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: |
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We do pretty much the same thing that Dave does.
If you pay via PayPal, we refund you the money via PayPal. If you pay using VISA, MasterCard or Diner's Club, we adjust the cost before processing your order so that no refund is necessary. _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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healey.cj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 2011
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by healey.cj on Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Nick Mondello Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 166 Location: Locust Valley, NY
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Reinhardt Drills |
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Rich/Dave:
Two quick questions:
1. Pivot Stabilizer - Do you leave the mouthpiece on your chops and nose breathe again before repeating? (So a complete repeat is one set with two NBs??)
Or, do you remove the mp, reset, nose breathe then repeat?
2. Pivot Question - I believe that I'm a IIIB (downstream, horn pivots down/straight). As I downward pivot horn ascending, top chop (head?) seems to be pulling up (opening chops, losing secure top chop contact) ascending above staff. Thoughts?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks!
Nick
P.S. Dave if I shoot you a few photos would/could you confirm typing me?
Please let me know (including fee) at nickmondello@optonline.net
Thanks!!!! |
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jwilson46 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 478 Location: Hamilton, Montana
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | 2. Pivot Question - I believe that I'm a IIIB (downstream, horn pivots down/straight). As I downward pivot horn ascending, top chop (head?) seems to be pulling up (opening chops, losing secure top chop contact) ascending above staff. Thoughts? |
When I was in college someone told me that Maynard Ferguson would pull his upper lip upwards when he went high. So I started practicing this. As I ascended I would pull my upper lip up (not out of the groove) and pivot as a IIIB. As the night went on I started to pull out of the groove. Dry chops and a strong left arm were needed to keep the mouthpiece in place. Years later I saw Maynard and this is not what he did. For years I played like this. I would also lift my head way up to keep this IIIB working. In reality I was a IIIA and when I broke those habits my playing greatly improved.
I'm not suggesting that you have the same issues as I; but I do know that you should not be moving the head.
I think you made an excellent choice in consulting Dave.
John |
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airdyn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Reinhardt Drills |
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1 Quote: | . Pivot Stabilizer - Do you leave the mouthpiece on your chops and nose breathe again before repeating? (So a complete repeat is one set with two NBs??) YES
Or, do you remove the mp, reset, nose breathe then repeat? NO |
The Pivot Stabilizer in the revised version of Reinhardt Routines has a caveat: Note: this drill is very strenuous. Many students skip the Stabilizer at first, adding it weeks or months later as embouchure development permits. I would like to add a further notice. Unless one has been properly taught his/her particular pivot, HANDS OFF THIS DRILL.
Quote: | 2. Pivot Question - I believe that I'm a IIIB (downstream, horn pivots down/straight). As I downward pivot horn ascending, top chop (head?) seems to be pulling up (opening chops, losing secure top chop contact) ascending above staff. Thoughts?
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I don't understand your description. Have you seen a proper Reinhardt Instructor?
Quote: | P.S. Dave if I shoot you a few photos would/could you confirm typing me?
Please let me know (including fee) at nickmondello@optonline.net |
Thanks!!!![/quote]
I won't be able to type you without seeing 1/ into the cup and determine which direction the airstream goes and 2/ still photos can only be a guess. A video lesson will show motion and give me a better look and be more accurate.
This is the best I can do.
Dave S. |
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