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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Questions about new Reinhardt book |
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I got the new Reinhardt book and have been working out of it. Some questions have arisen:
1) I don't know how long I've been "flapping" my lips. You know--making the horse sound. Bobby Shew is a big proponant of doing this, and I've used it for years to get the blood flowing through the lips. As I went through the studies in the new Reinhardt book, I was doing it at every resting point. Is that okay?
2) I use two different mouthpieces with the same rim, but different cups. Lately I've heard people say that you should play on the more shallow cup as much as possible. By doing so, you are teaching your chops to be the most efficient. I play about 80% of the time normally on my larger mouthpiece for a warmer jazz sound. The other 20% of the time, I use the shallow mouthpiece for a more commercial sound in pop bands and commercial settings. The bigger mouthpiece is my main one, but which should I use for the Reinhardt studies?
3) Can anyone recommend a Reinhart teacher in the Southern California area, where I live?
4) The markings for most of the studies are quarter note equals 50 beats per minute. I took this to mean that all unmarked studies should be the same. But when I got to the tongued arpeggiated studies (#7,8 and 9) of the second day, pages 8 and 9) that tempo seemed way too slow.
I'm guessing that these studies can be played a good deal faster. Am I correct?
5) The book reminds you in many places to rest as much as you play. Does this mean between each two bar phrase--or between each numbered study? ---or both?
5) I'd also like some clarification on the instruction to keep the "weight" on the lower lip when executing descending slurs. Does this refer to horn angle? Pressure? I started getting worried that I wasn't doing this weight distribution properly. How do I know if I am? |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about new Reinhardt book |
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markp wrote: | I got the new Reinhardt book and have been working out of it. Some questions have arisen:
1) I don't know how long I've been "flapping" my lips. You know--making the horse sound. Bobby Shew is a big proponant of doing this, and I've used it for years to get the blood flowing through the lips. As I went through the studies in the new Reinhardt book, I was doing it at every resting point. Is that okay?
2) I use two different mouthpieces with the same rim, but different cups. Lately I've heard people say that you should play on the more shallow cup as much as possible. By doing so, you are teaching your chops to be the most efficient. I play about 80% of the time normally on my larger mouthpiece for a warmer jazz sound. The other 20% of the time, I use the shallow mouthpiece for a more commercial sound in pop bands and commercial settings. The bigger mouthpiece is my main one, but which should I use for the Reinhardt studies?
3) Can anyone recommend a Reinhart teacher in the Southern California area, where I live?
4) The markings for most of the studies are quarter note equals 50 beats per minute. I took this to mean that all unmarked studies should be the same. But when I got to the tongued arpeggiated studies (#7,8 and 9) of the second day, pages 8 and 9) that tempo seemed way too slow.
I'm guessing that these studies can be played a good deal faster. Am I correct?
5) The book reminds you in many places to rest as much as you play. Does this mean between each two bar phrase--or between each numbered study? ---or both?
5) I'd also like some clarification on the instruction to keep the "weight" on the lower lip when executing descending slurs. Does this refer to horn angle? Pressure? I started getting worried that I wasn't doing this weight distribution properly. How do I know if I am? |
Hey, Mark,
1. As far as I know the "horse flapping" of the lips is fine. I don't see why not.
2. I think you may have to figure out for yourself which mpc to use while practicing this stuff. Reinhardt always said to use the smallest mouthpiece you can get away with.
3. I don't know a Reinhardt-type teacher out there, but hopefully somebody else here does.
4. If you read the "How to make the most of this book" page, it talks about the metronome markings. Definitely up to you, but the whole idea of the slow markings was to encourage folks to take their sweet time and not rush through this stuff. When there's no metronome marking, yes, it's up to you to take it at a tempo that will be helpful for you.
5. The "rest as much as you play" admonition throughout really means just that. If you did a drill that kept the mouthpiece on your lips for 60 seconds, then 60 seconds off is indicated. Might be better to rest more than less, too, y'know what I mean?
6. I answered one guy's question about the "weight" on the lower lip in this thread pretty far down the first page. No need to complicate that.
Do you feel like your chops are benefiting from this work? _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies Rich. So far, so good. By the time I'm done each day it feels really good. I'll pick up the horn later in the day and it's much easier to blister some high notes, as well as cleanly slurring big intervals. That has always been hard for me. I like the melodies in the back of the book: Melancholy Baby, Stardust and Memories of You. It's nice to play them at the end of the practice session and have everything feel under control and have those high notes and big intervals pop right out. Those are just the kinds of things that I've cacked on many times.
The only question I still woul like a bit more clarity on is the one about resting as much as you play. I know that if I play a two bar phrase that takes 30 seconds, that I should rest 30 seconds or longer. But at the end of the numbered exercises, during which I rested between each phrase as I went through it, do I rest for as long as it took to play through the whole exercise? i.e. 10 minutes or so?
So far, the entire routine (although each day is different) takes about 35 to 45 minutes. That is without the Advanced Routines. Does that sound about right?
I just thought of one more: During the exercise in which you slur an interval, and then keep the horn in place on your chops in a "sphinx-like" manner while you rest for the next breath attack--I understand that the lips, hands and face stay completely still. But how do you keep the air back? Do you close your throat? Put your tongue in a place to stop the air? Or neither of these things--just use the internal muscles to hold back the air? Or just let it leak a little? |
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airdyn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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markp wrote: |
I just thought of one more: During the exercise in which you slur an interval, and then keep the horn in place on your chops in a "sphinx-like" manner while you rest for the next breath attack--I understand that the lips, hands and face stay completely still. But how do you keep the air back? Do you close your throat? Put your tongue in a place to stop the air? Or neither of these things--just use the internal muscles to hold back the air? Or just let it leak a little? |
You suspend the air during the rests. Meaning, just don't BLOW! Keep everything the same: the lips, facial muscles, mouthpiece pressure on the lips, the head, the entire body. Keep the "firmness" in the diaphragmatic regions and below "as if you were blowing" but just DO NOT BLOW AIR. What can leak? No air is being sent to the lips! |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Okay--thanks. My tendency was to "shut off the hose" via tongue and/or a closed throat, and then to open it again for the next breath attack.
I suppose this is bad because it may jar or jostle the embrochure slightly, causing movement. Then, the next air attack has a slightly different embrochure setting to deal with. The idea here is to train the embrochure to be the same as much of the time as possible.
Am I barking up the right tree? |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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markp wrote: | Okay--thanks. My tendency was to "shut off the hose" via tongue and/or a closed throat, and then to open it again for the next breath attack.
I suppose this is bad because it may jar or jostle the embrochure slightly, causing movement. Then, the next air attack has a slightly different embrochure setting to deal with. The idea here is to train the embrochure to be the same as much of the time as possible.
Am I barking up the right tree? |
I'm still not exactly sure why Reinhardt wanted us to do that, and I have since stopped trying to figure out why. I just do it, and I keep getting better.
Imagine that!
Woof! _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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airdyn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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BeboppinFool wrote: | markp wrote: | Okay--thanks. My tendency was to "shut off the hose" via tongue and/or a closed throat, and then to open it again for the next breath attack.
I suppose this is bad because it may jar or jostle the embrochure slightly, causing movement. Then, the next air attack has a slightly different embrochure setting to deal with. The idea here is to train the embrochure to be the same as much of the time as possible.
Am I barking up the right tree? |
I'm still not exactly sure why Reinhardt wanted us to do that, and I have since stopped trying to figure out why. I just do it, and I keep getting better.
Imagine that!
Woof! |
Rich,
It is a very Zen thing. In The Science of Breath, Ramacharachi, Maynard's favorite "breathing book", The idea of "holding the breath between the inhalation and exhalation is very important not only in controlling the mind (meditation) but DOES build endurance, as Doc as stated. It goes along with his endurance drills, keeping the mouthpiece on the lips to get used to the "housing" of the position needed for when encountering times when we just can't take the horn off of our face on performances.
Dave S. |
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jerrydaz Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 221 Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Shame om me for not reading the index of my new Reinhardt Routines by Rich Willey.
Lo and behold, what do I find today but the Reidhardt Warm-up #57 routines under the supplemental routines that begin on page 28.
My apologies to Rich Willey for not reading further than the Day 7 routine on page 21.
I guess the lesson here is read the index. _________________ "All the Best"
Jerry Donato
Conn Constellation 38B
J. Marcinkiewicz E3.1 CH
Karl Hammond Design 4L
"For heights and depths no words can reach, music is the soul's own speech". |
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airdyn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: Sphynx on rests |
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Just thought of another reason for the "holding the rest" with no movements: To experience the "lips always just touching" except when "blown apart" to produce the aperture. What a great time to check on and experience your ability to keep them "just touching" when no air is passing between them. Dave s. |
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