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JonB Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Posts: 314 Location: Winnipeg
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: "Anchor tonguing" |
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I'm not 100% sure what it's called, but I've started to anchor the tip of my tongue behind the bottom teeth and articulate with the middle of the tongue this past week and I've seen nothing but benefits from it - cleaner attacks, more resonant sound, more consistent endurance and range, the whole nine yards.
My trumpet prof studied with Armando Ghitalla in Michigan for his doctorate, so I assume he will know plenty about this, but what are everyone's experiences with this system? _________________ Jon
Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS |
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EBjazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2368 Location: SF Bay Area
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JonB Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Posts: 314 Location: Winnipeg
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot! Some great clarifications there. _________________ Jon
Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS |
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Peter Bond Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 1455 Location: Metropolitan Opera
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've always played this way (I wasn't taught - it's the way I speak), and it improves almost every facet of playing for my students. Particularlly sound and accuracy of attack. |
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Mike Lockman Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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I switched to the anchor tongue 5 years ago. Never looked back. I experienced all the benefits you describe. Stick with it. _________________ All Bach Strad
AFM 60-471
Phi Mu Alpha |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Don't most of us really play that way anyway? If nothing else, having the tongue forward directs the wind right to the aperture without a chance to find it's way into cheeks, gum pouches, etc. (Well, maybe that answers my first question but it's still possible to blow out into the cheeks with the tongue forward...) As I've said here before several times, using the French "TOOO" pronunciation, it's about where the tongue ends up, anyway. Tonguing lightly, fast, short, broadly, what ever, there needs to be very little motion to make it happen. |
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mike ansberry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Clarksville, Tn
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Yup. I just sort of fell into this a few years ago. It makes everything better. Range, endurance, attacks, sound... _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt. |
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Bugleboygarceau Regular Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Posts: 33 Location: Ivins UT
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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This is all a revelation to me. I have been trying to find a good way to play and I think that looks like a good idea. Certainly something to discuss with my other band geek buddies.javascript:emoticon('') _________________ Dallas Brass for the win!
http://www.dallasbrass.com/ |
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acatrp61 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 164 Location: Acapulco, Mexico
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Greetings,
I first heard about Anchor Tonguing, or "K Tongue Modified" as Claude Gordon students call it while I was playing at Disneyworld about 10 years ago. I started practicing out of Claude´s book "Systematic Approach". It took me a good 3 months of working with it everyday until I could start to use it on the gig. What did it do for me, and why do I still use it today??
First, it gave me security in slotting my notes in all registers. I just got to the point that I didnt miss on a 2 hour show. It did make tonguing a bit easier, once I changed the syllables I was using.
I recommend it highly, BUT......much like the "Wedge Breath", you should get it from a experienced teacher and not try to learn it on your own, if done incorrectly it could cause issues you dont need.
Best of luck, stick with it and see it through!!!
Ed |
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Derek Reaban Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 4221 Location: Tempe, Arizona
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bobbytheb Regular Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 15
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Interesting, I may experiment with this.....
Bob |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Bond said:
Quote: | it improves almost every facet of playing for my students. Particularlly sound and accuracy of attack. |
Amen. I teach all beginners this, and convert older students.
Schwartz said:
Quote: | Don't most of us really play that way anyway? ...
As I've said here before several times, using the French "TOOO" pronunciation, it's about where the tongue ends up, anyway. |
I think most good players find this, but most school programs teach "TA" or "TOO" with the tongue tip behind the top teeth. In my understanding, it has to do with the misinterpretation of Arban's "tu", where as a French speaker his tongue was forward and he articulated that sound with the top of his tongue. French speakers please feel free to correct or expand upon this. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Moi, je parle francais. This is indeed, how proper French speakers (not those Canadian posers ) speak. The "tu," when spoken properly forces the tongue of most frogs, um, French speakers forward, and is indeed the way Arban et al were expressing themselves when imparting this syllable. I, for one, was not paying attention at the time and have only recently, in my dotage, discovered the pleasures and sound I've been after all these years.
As for adjusting to this system, some can find it in an instant, or for others, many months. Depends on your current state of displacement from this way of playing. It was Mr. Bond who first enlightened moi to this by describing his forward buzz on the mpc and the sound one should go for. Once you've got a semblence of this down, everything starts relaxing and you can increase your endurance, improve articulation, reduce your exertion, jump up your range, all of it relatively quickly assuming you've got other negative pickadillos banished from your playing: undo mpc pressure, overblowing, uneven mpc placement.
Why couldn't I have just learned guitar when I was 9 instead of having Doc Severinsen's sound bashed in my head? Oh well...
ed
Last edited by EdMann on Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jazztrumpet216 Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 494 Location: Eau Claire, WI
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Peter Bond wrote: | I've always played this way (I wasn't taught - it's the way I speak), and it improves almost every facet of playing for my students. Particularlly sound and accuracy of attack. |
Those are pretty much my experiences verbatim. I didn't know I was anchor tonguing until my trumpet professor told me I was, and he had no problems with it so I stuck to doing it. _________________ Kevin Peterson
1940 NY Bach 7/37 — 2009 Bach Philadelphia C — 1972 Bach 37/Melk #3 — 1969 Yamaha 734 — 1961 Mt. Vernon Bach 43 — 2013 Schilke P5-4 B/G — 1990's Getzen Eterna flugel |
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fraserhutch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 2548 Location: Oakville, ON Canada
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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As a native Quebecer poser, I can say that I have always pronounced "tu" with my tongue against my lower front teeth.
It is a different feeling that "too" - a more open throat.
EdMann wrote: | Moi, je parle francais. This is indeed, how proper French speakers (not those Canadian posers ) speak. The "tu," when spoken properly forces the tongue of most frogs, um, French speakers forward, and is indeed the way Arban et al were expressing themselves when imparting this syllable. I, for one, was not paying attention at the time and have only recently, in my dotage, discovered the pleasures and sound I've been after all these years.
As for adjusting to this system, some can find it in an instant, or for others, many months. Depends on your current state of displacement from this way of playing. It was Mr. Bond who first enlightened moi to this by describing his forward buzz on the mpc and the sound one should go for. Once you've got a semblence of this down, everything starts relaxing and you can increase your endurance, improve articulation, reduce your exertion, jump up your range, all of it relatively quickly assuming you've got other negative pickadillos banished from your playing: undo mpc pressure, overblowing, uneven mpc placement.
Why couldn't I have just learned guitar when I was 9 instead of having Doc Severinsen's sound bashed in my head? Oh well...
ed |
_________________ Schilke B1
Callet Jazz
Scodwell Standard Bb
Roger Ingram 1600is
Wild Thing Flugel
Dillon Rotary Picc.
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butxifxnot Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 2353
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:38 am Post subject: |
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About all I definitively know about anchor tonguing from personal experience is that you can double tongue (and ESPECIALLY single tonge) about 50% faster than tonguing behind the top teeth. _________________ "Never practice, always perform."
-Adolf Herseth |
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Al Innella Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2008 Posts: 755 Location: Levittown NY
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Stick with it. I've been playing this way for many years. It really helps when articulating in the upper register. |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roel.Flores Regular Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2011 Posts: 71 Location: Alamo, Texas
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is an old post but....
I was reading on Anchor Tonguing (K-Tongue Modified) and came across this post. Reminded me of Rafael Mendez (3:40), his tonguing is spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XryvsJOIAKA
I am working on K-Tongue Modified and I am hearing results. So I guess it's true.... You can teach an old dog new tricks. _________________ Roel Flores |
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stspello New Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 1 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Definitely helps |
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