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The_Kitchen_Sink Regular Member
Joined: 31 May 2016 Posts: 55
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: Yamaha Hagstrom and Curry 3BC and 3B mouthieces--and Bach 1c |
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Has anyone compared the Yamaha Hagstrom to a Curry BC cup? I do like how my Hagstrom plays in my C and Bach Bb, but I hate it in my Olds Studio Bb (which is actually a really fun horn).
After intense playing with my Bach 1c (which is probably too big but yields the best sound coupled with wretched endurance), the Hagstrom becomes more difficult to play. It isn't as extreme as not being able to buzz with a Bach 7 after playing the 1c too long, but things get more difficult and begin to sound worse.
I'm wondering if a Curry 3BC delivers some of the strengths found in the Hagstrom, especially a similar orchestral sound while using a piece with a smaller rim. I'm also curious if switching to a Curry 3B on my Bbs might help me keep the sound I need while reducing lip swelling and fatigue. Staying on the same size rim for everything seems like a good thing for me. If a Curry 3BC is anything like my Hagstrom (and a Curry 3b can deliver something similar to or better than the sound of a Bach 1c), then dropping $120 for a Curry 3b and Curry 3bc will probably be worth it.
I play mostly at work with my band and orchestra kids, at church, with wind bands, and at church gigs. I just feel like I'm working too hard and falling short too much for the benefits of the 1c. (I cut glass with a Bach 3c, so it's out.)
Thanks for any thoughts, comments, or comparison knowledge of those pieces. _________________ 1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1960 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1985-86 Getzen Eterna Picc
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2360 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a direct comparison for you only my experience with Curry's 3BC vs. 3B..
Having moved to Curry standard 3 rim(s) having the same endurance, consitency, and comfort issues from my beloved Bach 1.5 C (25 throat/Schmidt backbore).
Simply I find the 3BC to have a great sound and the rim shape is what I like in Curry but has some of the same issues that I'm trying to get away from - basically lack of strength and accuracy above the staff with decreased edurance.
Using a Curry 3B is, for me, the solution on my Bb when I want a fuller tone for those broad Orchestral settings. 3C is my "daily use" mouthpiece.. and for my large bore C a Curry 3C with an opened throat is my happy place right now. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:33 am Post subject: |
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I own the Curry 3BC. and I personally feel that the backbore is too wide for a Bb trumpet - it sounds "tubby." Amazing for C trumpet, however.
I also have a Curry 3B. and don't love it. But it is bowl-shaped like a 3C so maybe it would be a good fit for you if you're too bright on the 3C. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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The_Kitchen_Sink Regular Member
Joined: 31 May 2016 Posts: 55
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the quick responses!
Zaferis: Do you find you sound different on a Curry 3c than on a Bach 3c?
Turkle: What is it that you don't love about the 3b?
I quite like my sound on a 1c on the Bb horns I use the most, and I'm hoping to retain as much of that sound as possible through a switch. Are the curry 3b cups similar to the Bach 1c cup in sound produced since the Curry 3b is just a slightly deeper Curry 3c and the Bach 3c is their most shallow c cup? _________________ 1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1960 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1985-86 Getzen Eterna Picc
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Here's another vote against a Curry B cup. The rim is too rounded and everything suffers. The BC however, works great on everything. I don't like C cups. Too shallow and bright sounding and the flat bottom just makes the response off. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9831 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | Here's another vote against a Curry B cup. The rim is too rounded and everything suffers. The BC however, works great on everything. I don't like C cups. Too shallow and bright sounding and the flat bottom just makes the response off. |
The rims of the B and BC cups are identical within any number size range. Example: a Curry 3B. and a Curry 3BC. have the same rim shape, diameter, and thickness. From Mark's website:
Quote: | Engineered like no other mouthpiece, the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter. This feature gives you the freedom to select the right cup for the job without having to get used to a different rim. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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The_Kitchen_Sink wrote: |
Turkle: What is it that you don't love about the 3b?
Are the curry 3b cups similar to the Bach 1c cup in sound produced since the Curry 3b is just a slightly deeper Curry 3c and the Bach 3c is their most shallow c cup? |
I don't have a Bach 1C so I can't compare. I thought the Curry 3B was more difficult to play in the high register without sounding so much better. But I have a naturally darker sound so I enjoy the 3C. If you have a naturally bright sound the 3B could be a great fit! Different mouthpieces for different folks.
From your comments, it seems you enjoy playing on deeper mouthpieces, so with that in mind you may like the 3B a lot.
Worth noting: Curry BC cups are more funnel shaped, while Curry B cups are bowl shaped, so there is a big difference in how they play. The BC has a huge backbore, and the B has a slightly smaller one, which makes it better for Bb trumpets (in my opinion).
I do sometimes use the 3B when I'm jamming on my Bach 37 because it sounds good in that horn.
And finally, Curry mouthpieces (particularly the very popular 3. rim) sell quickly in the marketplace, so if you don't like them you would probably be able to sell them very quickly for most of your original investment.
Good luck! I love my Curry mouthpieces! I have almost every one made in the 3. rim. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2360 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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The_Kitchen_Sink wrote: | Thanks for the quick responses!
Zaferis: Do you find you sound different on a Curry 3c than on a Bach 3c? |
Curry's 3C is not as bright as a Bach 3C. Closer to a Bach 1.5..
not to brag, but I've made my career around a big fat sound, and have no loss of that moving from the larger Bach mouthpieces to a Curry 3C. If I'm in a situation where I'm playing the low parts or what to warm up the sound a bit more - that's when I pull out the 3B (i.e. Prayer of St Gregory in a Church setting or hymns where the choir/organ are on the soft side)
I find (feel) little to no difference between all of the 3 rims that Curry makes - one of the many reasons that I use them. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9384 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I switched from a Bach 3C to a Curry 3C. a few years ago and it's so much better (for me) than the Bach. Much better sound and very comfortable. I also have a Curry 3B., which has a slightly richer sound then the 3C., but my endurance suffers a bit with the deeper cup. Before buying the Curry 3B. mouthpiece, I talked to Mark about his 3BC. and it sounded too much like the Bach 3B, which I used to own but didn't like at all - it sounded great but sucked the life out of me.
I play the Curry 3C. 95% of the time (it's a terrific all-around mouthpiece), and use the 3B. occasionally for music that dwells in the low register or needs a really mellow sound. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | Richard III wrote: | Here's another vote against a Curry B cup. The rim is too rounded and everything suffers. The BC however, works great on everything. I don't like C cups. Too shallow and bright sounding and the flat bottom just makes the response off. |
The rims of the B and BC cups are identical within any number size range. Example: a Curry 3B. and a Curry 3BC. have the same rim shape, diameter, and thickness. From Mark's website:
Quote: | Engineered like no other mouthpiece, the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter. This feature gives you the freedom to select the right cup for the job without having to get used to a different rim. |
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The B has a B cup rim and the BC has a C cup rim with a B cup under. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1475 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I do not see anywhere on the Curry site that the rim is different on the B cup.
That would defeat the purpose of his lines.
Is this from personal experience?
Just curious.
R. Tomasek |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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He used to have the description. I haven't looked at his site in a long time. The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore. I've had a few over the years and yes, that is what they feel like to me. The B rim is rounder on the inside with less of a drop off AKA higher alpha angle. They feel good the first time but I don't like that rim style. So for me, the BC is the best of both worlds since I don't like the sound or response of C cups and I like a more open bore.
Went to Curry site:
BC Cup: The BC, or "Chicago" cup is actually a 1-piece version of the C rim combined with the Bach-style B cup. Excellent for orchestral work. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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The_Kitchen_Sink Regular Member
Joined: 31 May 2016 Posts: 55
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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From this post and reading a few others, it sounds like just buying about four or five different curry 3-rim pieces is the thing to do!
Safaris are expensive. Hopefully it is the right time to change mouthpieces, and I'm not just being impatient. _________________ 1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1960 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1985-86 Getzen Eterna Picc
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore. |
Correct... Because all Curry models have a C-cup rim and alpha.
Quote: | The B rim is rounder on the inside with less of a drop off AKA higher alpha angle. . |
Wrong.
They have exactly the same rim and alpha... Although if you had a lot of lip intrusion, you might feel that the BC is higher because of the shape, there - the B cup is like a deeper C cup, if the 3C is like a good 3C, then the 3B is more like a 3C rim on a 1C cup (ie: a deeper C cup but otherwise the same). |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1108 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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TKSop wrote: | Richard III wrote: | The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore. |
Correct... Because all Curry models have a C-cup rim and alpha.
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Where does it say on his website that all models have a C-cup rim and alpha?
The only model I find on his website that he describes as having a C rim is the BC line.
Otherwise, he simply states that "the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter." _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Tpt_Guy wrote: | TKSop wrote: | Richard III wrote: | The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore. |
Correct... Because all Curry models have a C-cup rim and alpha.
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Where does it say on his website that all models have a C-cup rim and alpha? |
It doesn't as far as I can recall, but it's certainly the case that they have the C-cup rim - the alpha I know is the same on the C and BC and IIRC only a fraction lower on the B (apologies for the unclear statement was half asleep when I wrote it).
IIRC he may've posted it on here back when he used to post
Quote: | The only model I find on his website that he describes as having a C rim is the BC line.
Otherwise, he simply states that "the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter." |
True enough, but the standard line is the rims with approximate Bach numbers, on all the standard cups (including BC) so logically each numbered rim must be based on the C-cup of each model. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2360 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:29 am Post subject: |
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The_Kitchen_Sink wrote: | From this post and reading a few others, it sounds like just buying about four or five different curry 3-rim pieces is the thing to do!
Safaris are expensive. Hopefully it is the right time to change mouthpieces, and I'm not just being impatient. |
Curry's are still inexpensive - you can get 3 or 4 of them for the price of 1 of the others.
Start with a 3C and branch out _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:44 am Post subject: |
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I don't want to turn this into a Darryl vs. John thing.
Quote: | the alpha I know is the same on the C and BC and IIRC only a fraction lower on the B |
That's the opposite of true. The B rim has a higher alpha angle. From GR's site and the reason I like lower alpha angles:
Quote: | The lower the Alpha Angle, the greater the lip room will be in the first cup. |
From GR's site and the reason I don't like higher alpha angles:
Quote: | If two mouthpieces are the exact same diameter, the one with the higher alpha angle may feel smaller. |
Quote: | if the alpha angle is just too high for you, you could experience lack of control, high blow resistance because the chops are being held too closed, poor articulations, intonation may suffer, thin sound, your chops could feel like they are "thinning out", and you could actually "bottom out" stopping vibrations completely. |
I have found all of this to be true. The beauty of the BC is that I get the deeper and more sonorous sound of the B cup and open bore with the room and feel of the C rim. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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The_Kitchen_Sink Regular Member
Joined: 31 May 2016 Posts: 55
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I was going to call to ask for some clarification directly from Mr. Curry, but his website says that isn't possible. Oh well.
If you don't buy them from someone here in the marketplace, is there a reliable place you prefer to use for Curry mouthpieces? We don't have a dealer near where I live. Since the Curry 3c is bigger sounding than a Bach 3c, I guess I'll start there. I know I won't be able to use it on my Olds Studio, though. Maybe the TC cup would work well for it. (I love working technical studies and whatnot with that horn, but it is amazingly bright when pushed.)
I'll stick with my Hagstrom with my C trumpet since it works well. If I like the 3 rim, then it may be time to order the 3bc.
Has anyone directly compared a Yamaha Hagstrom to a Curry BC cup?
Thanks for the help, everyone. _________________ 1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1960 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1985-86 Getzen Eterna Picc
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Like others have said, the rims of the Curry 3B and 3BC are identical. I've had both at the same time, the only difference is the cup, which is more bowl-shaped on the 3B. I'm not sure what Richard III is feeling, but if you email Mark I'm sure he'll tell you the same as his website, and others here have stated.
To answer your original question, I do think if you like a 1C, you'll like the 3B, as it'll be a more similar cup.
If you want to move away from Curry, a Schilke Symphony M3 or M3C (depending on if you want a 24/24 or 27 throat w/ tighter "C" backbore) will also be similar.
Another inexpensive option to try is a Yamaha 14C4 and 14D4
Good luck on your quest! _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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