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Stradbrother Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:55 pm Post subject: Small personal breakthrough that might help you. |
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Hey TH!
Just had a little breakthrough while playing through my daily Faddis range exercises (really just arpeggios at pianissimo). I have a degree on the horn and play professionally, even though my range has been stuck at an E (on Bb horn) most of my life.
While practicing I noticed that the center of my teeth is actually slightly off to the left of the center of my face. Nothing you’d ever be able to notice unless you’re a dentist.
I’ve always played in the center of my lips, as you should, but when I started topping out at an E like usual (everything above that comes out as a whistle, no vibration), I decided to put the horn off to the left about 1/4-1/2 an inch and all of a sudden, F, G, and a little bit of an A comes out.
Crazy.
My issue was never airstream or tongue arch, but my lips would just refuse to vibrate that fast and a whistle would come out. Changing to the center of my teeth gave me a few easy notes.
Maybe analyzing where the center of your teeth are might help you too! |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that reflection. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1560 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how many players actually play exactly in the center of their lips. I read somewhere that each person has a natural position that may not be the center of the lips. I know I play just ever so slightly off center. I have seen people playing very far to one side. Just off the top of my head, I think I have seen many people playing slightly off center. I am going to have to observe this in videos I watch from here on out. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Bb Cornet: Getzen 800 DLXS
Pic: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Std
Bass Tr: BAC Custom
Nat. Tr: Nikolai Mänttäri Morales Haas replica |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2594
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Playing exactly centered may be best for some players and not best for others. Lots of great players have played off center. It's an individual thing.
One thing that may be happening to the OP is that moving a little off center might be increasing resistance through the embouchure slightly, making the upper register easier. I've noticed that in my own playing.
Just a possibility to consider. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Stradbrother Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Posts: 160
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Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:13 am Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | Playing exactly centered may be best for some players and not best for others. Lots of great players have played off center. It's an individual thing.
One thing that may be happening to the OP is that moving a little off center might be increasing resistance through the embouchure slightly, making the upper register easier. I've noticed that in my own playing.
Just a possibility to consider. |
That's what I think might be happening!
What is surprising with playing in the center of my teeth rather than my lips is my tone has not changed at all oddly enough. Everything else feels perfectly fine and relaxed.
Really wished I figured this out in undergrad! |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2484 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I had always played off to the left, from my POV, and had a big sound but limited range, F, F# at best. I was in Vegas a few years ago and after corresponding with Lynn Nicholson, invited him for a coffee to talk trumpet, life in NV, life in general. We got to his MF Protocol method, and I mentioned that I thought it might not be for me; not being a lead player by nature, he got it, but he asked to look at my teeth and exclaimed, "you should be playing off to the right." I exclaimed, "huh?" He said you've got to find the best way for the air to get to the chops, or words to that effect. For the record, I don't use his method, but it certainly works for him and Maynard.
I got home and started experimenting, moving the mpc over some. To my delight, high Gs and As started popping, then double C's!...not under all circumstances, so don't get wise and pass me the lead book! But Lynn claimed he was rarely wrong in seeing what he sees. Since then, it's more reliable, but not a cornerstone of my playing. Nevertheless.....experiment!
ed |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Small personal breakthrough that might help you. |
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Stradbrother wrote: | Hey TH!
Just had a little breakthrough while playing through my daily Faddis range exercises (really just arpeggios at pianissimo). I have a degree on the horn and play professionally, even though my range has been stuck at an E (on Bb horn) most of my life.
While practicing I noticed that the center of my teeth is actually slightly off to the left of the center of my face. Nothing you’d ever be able to notice unless you’re a dentist.
I’ve always played in the center of my lips, as you should, but when I started topping out at an E like usual (everything above that comes out as a whistle, no vibration), I decided to put the horn off to the left about 1/4-1/2 an inch and all of a sudden, F, G, and a little bit of an A comes out.
Crazy.
My issue was never airstream or tongue arch, but my lips would just refuse to vibrate that fast and a whistle would come out. Changing to the center of my teeth gave me a few easy notes.
Maybe analyzing where the center of your teeth are might help you too! |
What's happened is that you've accidentally put your upper lip in a position relative to your teeth and the mouthpiece where the flesh has more elastic properties. Bingo! The High G comes out. In fact over time I'll bet that you'll even find it fairly easy to play these notes.
Now as to whether others will find a similar benefit? My guess is that most won't while some will. It's kinda like putting on a pair of running shoes that finally fit you. All your life you'd bought size 8 shoes and never felt comfortable. Then one day the store is out of size 8s so you must buy a size 9 and they fit great.
However most men have different sized feet. In this analogy most trumpet players won't find that they have the same suppleness in the upper lip in the same area where you found yours. So your suggestion will be met with mixed results.
But heck I'm a total believer in experimentation.
Congratulations! _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Bill_Bumps Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:59 am Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | Playing exactly centered may be best for some players and not best for others. Lots of great players have played off center. It's an individual thing. |
I agree that it's probably an individual thing. I find that playing just slightly off-center toward my right works best for me. But that's just for my particular lip and teeth configuration. I doubt that it's an across-the-board recommendation for everyone. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Small personal breakthrough that might help you. |
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Stradbrother wrote: | "I’ve always played in the center of my lips, as you should,... |
This makes me slightly nuts. While I would caution players from going too far off-center it seems to me that allowing the horn to float a bit usually results in something other than dead centered. Forcing a dead centered horn angle just because you think you should can, as you've found, limit your development.
And don't get me started on horn angle. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Stradbrother Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Posts: 160
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Just an update on progress, and some inspiration if you have been stuck for a while.
Moving slightly off center has helped me tremendously. Range is now up to a G, higher than it has ever been, and those notes dont feel high. No tension or worry, it comes out like It should at any dynamic.
Experiment around! Especially if it feels like you hit a wall like I was stuck on for years. |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 835 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Small personal breakthrough that might help you. |
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Stradbrother wrote: | Hey TH!
I’ve always played in the center of my lips, as you should, |
WRONG ... YOU play where the mouthpiece naturally rest on your chops. There are numerous high level professional trumpet players who DO NOT play dead center on their chops. Same goes for horn angle etc. YOU are an individual ... find what works for you. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana XLT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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