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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: Shires vs Schilke |
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In terms of playability (slotting, intonation, etc) how do the Shires trumpets compare with the Schilke trumpets?
I’m especially interested in how the CVLA-L compares with the B3, but any general insights are welcome!
Thanks!
Ken |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:11 am Post subject: |
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If you compare the Schilke Custom Series (B, X) and the Shires A, B and (most) C models, I think you'll find that the Shires horns tend to have tighter slotting and more "core" to the sound (as you would with the corresponding Bach models).
Some players will thus find it easier to play in tune with the Shires horns due to the more defined slots, and others will delight in the easier...latitude...offered by the Schilke horns.
Really, just a difference in design philosophy leading to wonderfully different, fantastic horns. |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I love the bright sound of my B3 Beryllium (especially with the Reeves mouthpiece), but as a comeback player, I could probably use a little more help with the slotting. A better player could really make this horn sing!
However, I'm not a big fan of Bach trumpets for some reason. I find them too "heavy" in the way they feel in hand and play. I'm hoping the Shires can help with the slotting without feeling cumbersome. We shall see...
I did play a Yamaha Custom something that slotted beautifully yet was very nimble. It was just too warm-sounding for me in the middle and low registers. I need to try a Shires CVLA-L and see what happens. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:07 am Post subject: |
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If you like your B3, you might consider the S or HD series. You'll likely find slotting and intonation to be easier; some more core to the sound as well. Different blow though compared to the B series horns.
The Shires CVLA models will certainly come closer to what you are looking for compared to the Shires A and B models -- which are closer to the Bach style that you don't like.
Shires horns are fantastic (as are Schike). I don't want to steer you away, but there are other horns you might want to consider in addition to the Shires: Yamaha 8335LAII, Getzen 900DLX, Adams A5 come to mind as offering something "transitional."
Also, worth noting that mouthpiece gap can have a significant impact on slotting. Is your Reeves mouthpiece cut for Sleeves? If so, you could experiment with that a bit to see if you can dial in the feel you are looking for. |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:01 am Post subject: |
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I'm looking for a really bright-sounding trumpet with better slotting. I fear that core=warm, which is what I don't want. I tried the LA and the OZ and they had lots of core in the middle register. Now for players who live in the stratosphere, like Bobby and Wayne, that's probably a good thing. But, for someone who plays mainly in the staff, it sounds too warm to me.
I tried an Adams A2...same thing. I will look into the A5...as well as the Getzen 900DLX. (The Edwards X13 was super-corish!)
And, yes, I have the Reeves cut for sleeves (with 3 gaps) arriving today! |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 626 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Kenny, if you're looking at the 900 DLX and want bright, you might also try a side-by-side with the 900 Eterna Classic. I have one, as well as a 907 Proteus and an X-13, and the Classic is like a jet fighter compared to the performance sports sedans of the other two. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2474
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Croquethed wrote: | Kenny, if you're looking at the 900 DLX and want bright, you might also try a side-by-side with the 900 Eterna Classic. I have one, as well as a 907 Proteus and an X-13, and the Classic is like a jet fighter compared to the performance sports sedans of the other two. |
/\ THIS /\ _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:44 am Post subject: |
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I put a call in to Getzen. Dave Serber is on vacation till next week. I will call him back and talk about these two trumpets. Thanks
PS I tried the Reeves 3.5 sleeve just now and it seems to help with the slotting. I will experiment with the three sleeves they sent me (3, 3.5 and 4) and see how it goes. Fingers crossed 🤞🏻 because I love the brilliant tone of the B3 Beryllium! |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:27 am Post subject: |
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The sleeves help the slotting issue somewhat but not enough for me to end the trumpet safari at this point. I placed an order for a CVLA-L. It should arrive in about 3 months. |
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Shark01 Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2017 Posts: 288
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:12 am Post subject: |
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So I have a question about these comparisons between traditional commercial brands like Schilke, Bach, Yamaha and the newer commercial brands. Please keep in mind my foundation on these issues was set 40 some odd years ago and I had a 25 year vacation, so there are so many brands now I’ve never heard of.
While I understand that boutique low volume manufacturers (Blackburn, Thein, etc) can make horns of equal quality (not just manufacturing quality, but everything that makes for great trumpets) or better, are the newer commercial brands really comparable or is it more about a value proposition? You know, similar to comparing a Corvette versus a Lamborghini. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2474
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Move your sports car analogy to racing.
Every car has a little bit different aero. What is the pitch of the steering rack, the angle of the wheel relative to the seat? What is the CoF of the tires and what temperature are they at, what temp is the track? Don't forget the brakes, and the pedal that controls them.....High end trumpets will be "OK" or "perfect" for an individual, based not just on the horn, but on the person and what they want from the horn.
"Great" is subjective, and it is personal. It's never a brand thing. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | are the newer commercial brands really comparable or is it more about a value proposition? |
I can only speak of a few of the "new" non-boutique brands: Adams and Shires. Both make fine horns of comparable quality to Bach and Schilke.
As a matter of personal preference, I wasn't drawn to any of the horns in the Adams lineup aside from the A5, which I owned and liked, but every Adams model that I played was unquestionably well made. [They've updated a few models since I last played them.]
Regarding Shires, I haven't played a Bb, C or Eb/D model that I didn't like. [On the Bb side, haven't played the AHW, BLW or a few of the C models.] Build quality was uniformly excellent. As a big fan of the Bach 18037/19037, I nonetheless recommend that anyone considering those horns also try the Shires A models. They're that good. |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Croquethed wrote: | Kenny, if you're looking at the 900 DLX and want bright, you might also try a side-by-side with the 900 Eterna Classic....a jet fighter compared to...the other two. |
Does the Getzen "jet fighter" play like a traditional Bach...or like a Schilke/Benge? |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7016 Location: AZ
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion, the Shires CLA-L is a very good combination of sound, flexibility and a unique secure slotting that isn't rigid. The Schilke is less secure, but might have a bit more core and character in its sound, but I haven't compared them side-by-side. More like decade-by-decade.
If I were to add another trumpet to my stable and wanted something for stage band or the like, the Shires CLA-L would be at the top of my short list. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7016 Location: AZ
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Kennyg2019 wrote: | Croquethed wrote: | Kenny, if you're looking at the 900 DLX and want bright, you might also try a side-by-side with the 900 Eterna Classic....a jet fighter compared to...the other two. |
Does the Getzen "jet fighter" play like a traditional Bach...or like a Schilke/Benge? |
Neither. I played one at NAMM some years ago. I have to say, it was far from my favorite trumpet there. I thought it played more like an intermediate horn, in comparison with their 3051 or Vax models. The Benge/Schilke vibe is more free and encourages lyrical, flowing lines. A good Bach is nice and stable. The Getzen 900 Eterna Classic felt a bit clumsy and needed firm articulation to get a predictable response.
BUUUUUUTTTT, lots of folks here like 'em! _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! 😳
Last edited by Kennyg2019 on Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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4 months and counting...🙄 |
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B_Starry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2002 Posts: 903 Location: Lake Norman
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kenny,
Have you ever played a Bach 43 lightweight?
If so, and you thought it was too heavy or warm, perhaps look into an old Selmer K-mod lightweight model. They are much "lighter and brighter", in my experience.
The Schilkes I've owned (9 so far) are/were all excellent instruments, but none of them would I describe as overly bright. The "brightest" was probably their B4, with the B2 in second.
The only Shires I've played was definitely "less bright" than the either the B4 or B2.
Your playing genre and environment may help us steer you toward a good solution ... _________________ do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2117 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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I never played a Schilke B4 but a B6 can with the right mouthpiece be quite bright, at least in my hands (and if you believe band recordings I usually play on the darker side). If you buy a B4L you’ll just need another bell to go between the two.
As far as Getzen goes, I’d agree with shofarguy: the older, i.e., Eterna style horns, don’t quite rank as high for me as the Schilke and Bachs. Not sure I’d say clumsy but there is something different (I’d LOVE to try the new ones, especially the 800DLX cornet).
Another horn you may want to look into is the B&S MBX2. This is an all lightweight horn and I hear it can be quite punchy. Not sure about the „bright“ aspect.
The X-13 to me is not generically bright. Great (!!!) horn, but can also be quite dark and warm sounding.
As a Bach player for 30 years I’d also look into the Mariachi, the Commercial, or the 43* (does the 25* exist?) model.
Finally, as I stated in another post, I just have on loan a Blessing Super Artist for a few weeks. What a horn! With the right mouthpiece, this could also fit the bill but good luck finding one at a price that is still affordable or reasonable. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Kennyg2019 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2022 Posts: 261 Location: NY
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your suggestions, but I’m still waiting on the Shires CVLA. It’s supposed to be bright like my Schilke B3B but with better slotting. |
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