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"Anchor tonguing"


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JonB
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: "Anchor tonguing" Reply with quote

I'm not 100% sure what it's called, but I've started to anchor the tip of my tongue behind the bottom teeth and articulate with the middle of the tongue this past week and I've seen nothing but benefits from it - cleaner attacks, more resonant sound, more consistent endurance and range, the whole nine yards.

My trumpet prof studied with Armando Ghitalla in Michigan for his doctorate, so I assume he will know plenty about this, but what are everyone's experiences with this system?
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CG students call it K-tongue modified.
Here's a free lesson on KTM:
http://www.bolvinmusic.com/musicNet/lessons-1.html
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JonB
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EBjazz wrote:
CG students call it K-tongue modified.
Here's a free lesson on KTM:
http://www.bolvinmusic.com/musicNet/lessons-1.html


Thanks a lot! Some great clarifications there.
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Peter Bond
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always played this way (I wasn't taught - it's the way I speak), and it improves almost every facet of playing for my students. Particularlly sound and accuracy of attack.
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Mike Lockman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched to the anchor tongue 5 years ago. Never looked back. I experienced all the benefits you describe. Stick with it.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't most of us really play that way anyway? If nothing else, having the tongue forward directs the wind right to the aperture without a chance to find it's way into cheeks, gum pouches, etc. (Well, maybe that answers my first question but it's still possible to blow out into the cheeks with the tongue forward...) As I've said here before several times, using the French "TOOO" pronunciation, it's about where the tongue ends up, anyway. Tonguing lightly, fast, short, broadly, what ever, there needs to be very little motion to make it happen.
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mike ansberry
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. I just sort of fell into this a few years ago. It makes everything better. Range, endurance, attacks, sound...
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Bugleboygarceau
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is all a revelation to me. I have been trying to find a good way to play and I think that looks like a good idea. Certainly something to discuss with my other band geek buddies.javascript:emoticon('')
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acatrp61
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

I first heard about Anchor Tonguing, or "K Tongue Modified" as Claude Gordon students call it while I was playing at Disneyworld about 10 years ago. I started practicing out of Claudes book "Systematic Approach". It took me a good 3 months of working with it everyday until I could start to use it on the gig. What did it do for me, and why do I still use it today??
First, it gave me security in slotting my notes in all registers. I just got to the point that I didnt miss on a 2 hour show. It did make tonguing a bit easier, once I changed the syllables I was using.
I recommend it highly, BUT......much like the "Wedge Breath", you should get it from a experienced teacher and not try to learn it on your own, if done incorrectly it could cause issues you dont need.

Best of luck, stick with it and see it through!!!
Ed
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Derek Reaban
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,

I too have experienced the same things that you mention in your post. This is something that I wrote on the topic several years ago.

Heres another post that was important on this topic.
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bobbytheb
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, I may experiment with this.....


Bob
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bond said:
Quote:
it improves almost every facet of playing for my students. Particularlly sound and accuracy of attack.

Amen. I teach all beginners this, and convert older students.

Schwartz said:
Quote:
Don't most of us really play that way anyway? ...
As I've said here before several times, using the French "TOOO" pronunciation, it's about where the tongue ends up, anyway.

I think most good players find this, but most school programs teach "TA" or "TOO" with the tongue tip behind the top teeth. In my understanding, it has to do with the misinterpretation of Arban's "tu", where as a French speaker his tongue was forward and he articulated that sound with the top of his tongue. French speakers please feel free to correct or expand upon this.
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EdMann
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moi, je parle francais. This is indeed, how proper French speakers (not those Canadian posers ) speak. The "tu," when spoken properly forces the tongue of most frogs, um, French speakers forward, and is indeed the way Arban et al were expressing themselves when imparting this syllable. I, for one, was not paying attention at the time and have only recently, in my dotage, discovered the pleasures and sound I've been after all these years.

As for adjusting to this system, some can find it in an instant, or for others, many months. Depends on your current state of displacement from this way of playing. It was Mr. Bond who first enlightened moi to this by describing his forward buzz on the mpc and the sound one should go for. Once you've got a semblence of this down, everything starts relaxing and you can increase your endurance, improve articulation, reduce your exertion, jump up your range, all of it relatively quickly assuming you've got other negative pickadillos banished from your playing: undo mpc pressure, overblowing, uneven mpc placement.

Why couldn't I have just learned guitar when I was 9 instead of having Doc Severinsen's sound bashed in my head? Oh well...

ed


Last edited by EdMann on Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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jazztrumpet216
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Bond wrote:
I've always played this way (I wasn't taught - it's the way I speak), and it improves almost every facet of playing for my students. Particularlly sound and accuracy of attack.


Those are pretty much my experiences verbatim. I didn't know I was anchor tonguing until my trumpet professor told me I was, and he had no problems with it so I stuck to doing it.
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fraserhutch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a native Quebecer poser, I can say that I have always pronounced "tu" with my tongue against my lower front teeth.
It is a different feeling that "too" - a more open throat.


EdMann wrote:
Moi, je parle francais. This is indeed, how proper French speakers (not those Canadian posers ) speak. The "tu," when spoken properly forces the tongue of most frogs, um, French speakers forward, and is indeed the way Arban et al were expressing themselves when imparting this syllable. I, for one, was not paying attention at the time and have only recently, in my dotage, discovered the pleasures and sound I've been after all these years.

As for adjusting to this system, some can find it in an instant, or for others, many months. Depends on your current state of displacement from this way of playing. It was Mr. Bond who first enlightened moi to this by describing his forward buzz on the mpc and the sound one should go for. Once you've got a semblence of this down, everything starts relaxing and you can increase your endurance, improve articulation, reduce your exertion, jump up your range, all of it relatively quickly assuming you've got other negative pickadillos banished from your playing: undo mpc pressure, overblowing, uneven mpc placement.

Why couldn't I have just learned guitar when I was 9 instead of having Doc Severinsen's sound bashed in my head? Oh well...

ed

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butxifxnot
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About all I definitively know about anchor tonguing from personal experience is that you can double tongue (and ESPECIALLY single tonge) about 50% faster than tonguing behind the top teeth.
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick with it. I've been playing this way for many years. It really helps when articulating in the upper register.
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dbacon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"My trumpet prof"

....you can start and end with your teacher...
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Roel.Flores
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is an old post but....

I was reading on Anchor Tonguing (K-Tongue Modified) and came across this post. Reminded me of Rafael Mendez (3:40), his tonguing is spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XryvsJOIAKA

I am working on K-Tongue Modified and I am hearing results. So I guess it's true.... You can teach an old dog new tricks.
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stspello
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely helps
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